Loss of salvation???

[sawdust]

you're contradicting yourself:



you say Adam had no evil inside his heart until after he sinned...



... then you say he was evil from the beginning, just waiting for an "excuse" to sin.

No, you simply don't get it. Sin is the result of evil, not the cause. We are born wrong (sin nature in the flesh), we are not born evil. Evil must be learned just as good must be learned. This is why the tree could be in the garden. If Adam was innately good or evil, he would already have been aware and no need for the tree.

We sin when we allow our desires to draw us away from God's truth. Eating the fruit was Adam's sin, but rejecting God's truth because of his desire was evil. The desire preceded the eating.

James 1:15
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Desire that rejects truth (evil) gives birth to sin.

And I never said he was just waiting for an excuse to sin. What I said was Eve's sin gave Adam the excuse he needed to justify his evil desire.

this has nothing to do with what God said to the company of angels witnessing the events in Genesis 3.

it's not a "theory" that God spoke of Adam. it's the scripture.

View attachment 267116


note that the verb "become" is singular case. not speaking of both of them.

note that YHVH says "ha-Adam" - - that is Adam's name. "adam" without the "ha-" means mankind, but the text specifically says the particular man, named Adam.
again it is singular case, not referring to the man and the woman, or referring to mankind in general - the grammar is inescapable and incontrovertible.

figure out why.

LOL Apart from the fact I never said anything about angels, I show you a scripture that reveals God considers them to be as one and you still want to split them up.

It's the exact same word used in Gen1:26&27 when it speaks of creating man, male and female. Masculine singular.

What is it Mark 10:9 says again?

ROFL

 

[mailmandan]

We have the example of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8 as an example —both of loosing his salvation and what to do to regain it. Peter told him to repent and pray for forgiveness. If that’s what Simon had to do—that’s what we must do. Also.

There was no loss of salvation here for Simon. Only a failure to receive it. Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) You call that saved? Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.

 

[fredoheaven]

A crown is a reward for the faithful, A life is a gift given to those who will believe.

 

[mailmandan]

First of all, yes, thank you, I DID MEAN Revelation 2:10. But you have “added” a word into that verse that is not there. The word “enough.” God did NOT say “if you are faithful ENOUGH.” That changes the meaning. You know, that is a trick of Satan. He only added one word to what God said, too. He said “you shall “NOT” die. Revelation 22:18-19 warns us not to ADD to His word. (Nor subtract from it.).

No, I did not add the word "enough" to Revelation 2:10 as if it's written in the translation. I said "IF" Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must remain faithful "enough" (based on your interpretation that culminates in works righteousness) then just how faithful would we have to be? If salvation is based on works then there would need to be a line drawn in the sand and exactly where is that line drawn to get a passing grade in order to make the cut as "faithful?" That was my point. It turns out that you are using a trick of Satan yourself in order to slander me.

Yes, there are more things we must do in addition to our faith.

There it is! You teach salvation by works. I knew it! You also seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.

I know this because God said we are NOT saved by faith only.

Try reading James 2:24 in CONTEXT. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but he has no works to evidence his faith. That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In regard to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" Strongs #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

You see that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works." (James 2:14)

*Fits the context.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. *Hermeneutics.

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" Strongs #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

*Fits the context.

I will trust what God says in His word. It’s the same trick Satan pulled with Eve. He basically told her what God said wasn’t true. Then, he said the OPPOSITE of what God said, “ You shall NOT die.

Believing a false gospel of salvation by works is not trusting what God says in His word. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) Satan has tricked you.

That’s the same thing you are doing with James 2:24. GOD says we are NOT saved by faith only. YOU say,” Yes, we ARE SAVED by faith only.”

False. I am not saying that we are saved by an empty profession of faith (James 2:14) that only claims to be genuine but demonstrates by remaining barren of works that it's dead. Hence, faith only per James 2:24. We are saved by faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and this kind of faith is evidenced by good works. (Ephesians 2:10) James 2:24 is a major stumbling block for works-salvationists.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

You see? Satan ALWAYS SAYS THE OPPOSITE of what God says. I know what God has said in James 2:24. Eve knew what God had said to her. If I believe YOU, instead of GOD, then I am just repeating Eve’s mistake and sin. I choose to believe God.

More confusion and slander on your part and since you failed to read James 2:24 in CONTEXT and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine, (Romans 4:2-6) you end up believing Satan instead of God.

Here’s another example. GOD says in 1 Peter 3:21, “BAPTISM SAVES US.” Here’s what YOU say, “Baptism does NOT save us.” You see? It’s the scene in the garden of Eden all over again. If God says “yes”, Satan says “no”. If God says”no”, Satan says “yes.” You are saying the OPPOSITE of what God says.

In Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). *Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.

This is what I know: Satan uses people (or things) to teach his lies.

Oh, the irony.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

In the garden of Eden he used a serpent. In 1 Kings 13, he used an old prophet, who said the OPPOSITE of what God said. And in Matthew 16:23 he even used the apostle Peter. God said, “Do not believe every spirit, but test” the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1

You have failed the test because you teach salvation by works.

I’m not at all interested in what MEN say in trying to “explain away” the parable of the sower and the parable of the Prodigal Son. Those parables are not hard to understand nor the meanings of those parables. The explanation given in trying to “get around” their meaning is much more complicated and confusing than the simplicity of what Jesus taught.

ALL works-salvationists interpret the parable of the sower and the parable of the Prodigal Son the same way you do, including Roman Catholics and Mormons. There is a reason why works-salvationists cannot properly interpret scripture. 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God has made it very plain for us: Galations 5:1-4 says “YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE.”

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Those who "permanently" fall away fit 1 John 2:19. Paul did not say these Galatians lost their salvation and it's all over for them.

Ephesians 2:5- Remember from where YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent.”

Did you mean Revelation 2:5? You seem to have trouble getting get your verses straight. Ephesians 2:5 actually says - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), which is a good verse for you to take to heart. In regard to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, clearly the Lord wanted the church at Ephesus to repent, to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus.

In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for the depth of love it once had for the Lord. So what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lamp stand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but that the church there can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness, which apparently it did. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) is now dominated by Islam.

1 Cor, 10:12- “Let him who thinks he stands take heed LEST HE FALL. Now, please answer me this: where did they FALL FROM? If they were never saved in the first place then they were already lost So WHERE DID THEY FALL FROM? GOD TOLD THE Christian’s in Ephesus they had “fallen”. He told the Christian’s at Corinth to be careful not to “fall.” FROM WHERE?? Please answer .
Not only that, WHERE DID THEY FALL TO?? If they were already lost, then where did they go when they “fell.? FELL TO WHERE?? Please answer.

When Jesus was arrested, the 11 remaining disciples were said to "fall away" in Matthew 26:31-35. Did they lose their salvation? Are the remaining 11 disciples including Peter in hell today? If not, why not according to your logic? In Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. So, a righteous man may fall and rise again and the wicked fall. Does that answer your question?

Even in the Old Testament God shows us the saved can be lost. In Exodus 32:33 God plainly says that “WHOEVER SINS, I WILL BLOT OUT OF MY BOOK.” He repeats the message again in Revelation 3:5 when He says those who overcome (sin), I will NOT blot out of the book of life.” No misunderstanding that!! In Deut. 29:20 God is speaking to His chosen people Israel-His children and He tells them in verse 18 that there may be one of them whose HEART TURNS AWAY FROM GOD. Did you get that? It is possible that a child of God can TURN AWAY FROM GOD. But read on; in verse 20 God says “I will BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM UNDER HEAVEN. That harmonizes perfectly with Rev. 3:5 and Exodus 32:33. God is telling us all through His book, that 1) a child of God can turn away from God, and 2) if he does he will lose his salvation. And 3) we can LOSE OUR CROWN. Rev. 3:11 says to be careful SOMEONE CAN TAKE YOUR CROWN AWAY!! Through false teaching or false teachers would be one way. And God warns us about these in 1 John 4:1. Lamentations 5:16 says, “THE CROWN HAS FALLEN FROM OUR HEAD. Woe to us for we have sinned.”

More eisegesis on your part. In regard to Exodus 32:33, whoever sins covers everyone. Romans 3:23 - ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So, according to your logic here, everyone will get blotted out His book. How about a little CONTEXT. Exodus 32:31 - So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.” So, it was not just any sin and not all of these Israelites were saved. Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. I already covered crowns with you and there are multiple crowns mentioned in scripture. In regard to Lamentations 5:16, God’s blessing and authority, symbolized by a crown, had departed from the head of the nation of Israel. Nothing here about individuals losing salvation.

Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Eternal IN-securists read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and He is ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome in life according to their standards. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and maintain your salvation by works, then you’re going to lose your salvation! But that is not what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

For a further study on the book of life these Q&A posts from these Christian sites may help you:

What is the Book of Life and the Book of the Living? | NeverThirsty
Is it possible for a person’s name to be erased from the Book of Life? | GotQuestions.org

 

[posthuman]

No, you simply don't get it. Sin is the result of evil, not the cause. We are born wrong (sin nature in the flesh), we are not born evil. Evil must be learned just as good must be learned. This is why the tree could be in the garden. If Adam was innately good or evil, he would already have been aware and no need for the tree.

you think God's purpose in putting the tree of dying-you-shall-die in the garden was so that man would become evil?

how does that fit with the character of God?

If Adam was innately good

"if"???

Genesis 1:31​

Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ​

 

[posthuman]

Eating the fruit was Adam's sin, but rejecting God's truth because of his desire was evil. The desire preceded the eating.

you have God creating Adam with sin already in his heart, and God calling that evil "very good"

James isn't describing Adam, just as James isn't describing Christ. James is describing you, and you are not like Adam in the day he was created - you never have been.
only he, Woman and Jesus have ever been perfect humanity.


your misunderstanding of Genesis still contradicts itself, and now it blaspheme God, claiming God calls evil good.

you say Adam had no morality whatsoever, but you say Adam had sinful desire in him from the day he was created.

why not accept what the text actually says? Adam was created very good. Adam was capable of moral choice. Adam was not deceived. Adam listened to the voice of his dying wife. Adam confessed to God that he saw she had eaten, so he ate also.
he made a choice to die with her rather than live without her, leaving his Father for her sake. it wasn't the right choice.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

you're contradicting yourself:



you say Adam had no evil inside his heart until after he sinned...



... then you say he was evil from the beginning, just waiting for an "excuse" to sin.

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat thou shalt surely die.”

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;

and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We aren’t meant to be conflicted between good and evil in our mind and heart it’s only a result of Adams transgression his sin , meant all his offsporng would be born with that nature born knowing good and evil having desire and intrigue towards both elements

bit God made man separate from that knowledge , it’s not part of mankind’s design to know both good and evil we are designed to just do this and live

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭

It was the same here but man failed

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭

and became like Roman’s 7 knowing good and evil life and death blessing and cursing righteousness and iniquity light and dark and so we need freedom again to choose life by hearing and walking in Gods word , so that we can repent of good and evil , hear snd know the truth believing u to life

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[sawdust]

you think God's purpose in putting the tree of dying-you-shall-die in the garden was so that man would become evil?

how does that fit with the character of God?



"if"???

Genesis 1:31​

Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ​

How you jump to the conclusions you do has me confounded. If you can't understand what is plainly written within it's context, why bother conversing with you?

We have been through the difference of innate goodness and being declared good. If you don't understand the difference or why it is so, you have some catching up to do.

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

you have God creating Adam with sin already in his heart, and God calling that evil "very good"

James isn't describing Adam, just as James isn't describing Christ. James is describing you, and you are not like Adam in the day he was created - you never have been.
only he, Woman and Jesus have ever been perfect humanity.


your misunderstanding of Genesis still contradicts itself, and now it blaspheme God, claiming God calls evil good.

you say Adam had no morality whatsoever, but you say Adam had sinful desire in him from the day he was created.

why not accept what the text actually says? Adam was created very good. Adam was capable of moral choice. Adam was not deceived. Adam listened to the voice of his dying wife. Adam confessed to God that he saw she had eaten, so he ate also.
he made a choice to die with her rather than live without her, leaving his Father for her sake. it wasn't the right choice.

I did not say Adam had sinful desire in him from the day he was created. He had a desire to eat the fruit just as Christ had a desire not be tortured to death. The difference is Christ did not depart from the will and word of God whereas Adam allowed his desire to take him away from God's command. When that happens it is desired "conceived" as James tells us and that evil desire (evil because it has rejected the truth) is what leads to sin.

I'm not going to bother with you any more. You completely misunderstand what is written, jump to erroneous conclusions then make your false accusations against me based on your misunderstandings.

You have a great day.

 

[posthuman]

@Beckworth

what about now?

are you still saved...?

i hope so!
good luck!

 

[posthuman]

He had a desire to eat the fruit just as Christ had a desire not be tortured to death.

rubbish.

Adam was not deceived. he knew that eating the fruit of the tree of death is death

Desiring not to die is not the same as desiring to die. you say Adam desired to eat, the Bible says Adam knew exactly what eating meant, so you say Adam desired sin and death, before there was any sinning him. that is exactly the same as saying Adam was created with an evil heart that God called "very good"
-it's blasphemy and grave error.



i humbly suggest, instead of continuing trying to justify the self-contradictory view your insufficient teachers imbued you with, try to fix it.

try to answer the question, why does God say of Adam, not Woman, he has become like one of us? why does God wait until Adam has changed his wife's name and been clothed with the work of God's own hand before saying this?

 

[posthuman]

That is both insane, and completely unbiblical.

Furthermore, I strongly suspect that Adam, like God, could not be successfully tempted by Satan (Gen 1:26). And I also suspect that Satan tried many times to deceive Adam and failed every time. So Satan regrouped and launched his plan of attack upon the woman. Whom he did deceive ****TEMPORARILY****! Only to have the Woman CONFESS HER SIN of unbelief at the subsequent trial AND RECEIVE FORGIVENESS AND AQUITTAL.

Adam in effect DEFEATED Satan in a roundabout way (ultimately by the work of the Last Adam yet to come).......in my humble opinion. A fact that God knew in advance of course.

And all of these intrigues and dramas......are part of God's plan of salvation made before the foundation of the world. In my humble opinion.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

===================================================================================

You are DEVASTATINGLY wrong about Genesis chapter 3.
I urge you to hear the truth of the matter. It will only take perhaps 10 or 20 hours of your time.

Adam And Eve... What really happened?

1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think

Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?

Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear

Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought

Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?

Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?

Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?

Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this

@sawdust CV5 gave you excellent resources.

please use them. do you judge what you haven't even heard? listen to the first hour or two before you throw away the opportunity to grow in the knowledge of God.

you will at the very least become able to have an informed conversation on this topic with us.

i have heard all the preaching you have heard about this. i have read all the views you are parroting. i was ignorant and swallowed them whole too, unthinking, unquestioning, not taking any care to examine what i was being told and what the scriptures actually say.
i have come to know better. come with me.

 

[posthuman]

We have been through the difference of innate goodness and being declared good. If you don't understand the difference or why it is so, you have some catching up to do.

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

the reason no one is good but God is that Adam - fully cognizant of what he was doing and of the consequences - chose to do evil. see Romans 5:12. Adam was good until he sinned - just as through Ezekiel God says Satan himself was perfect in every way until sin was found in him.


BTW what does Matthew 19:17 imply about God's angels, given how you are holding that sword..?

still think James's description applies to the unfallen? does it apply to Jesus? do you also say the Son of God had a heart full of evil desire?
oh my! who can redeem Christ??

untenable, bud.

 

[posthuman]

 

[sawdust]

the reason no one is good but God is that Adam - fully cognizant of what he was doing and of the consequences - chose to do evil. see Romans 5:12. Adam was good until he sinned - just as through Ezekiel God says Satan himself was perfect in every way until sin was found in him.


BTW what does Matthew 19:17 imply about God's angels, given how you are holding that sword..?

still think James's description applies to the unfallen? does it apply to Jesus? do you also say the Son of God had a heart full of evil desire?
oh my! who can redeem Christ??

untenable, bud.

More misrepresentation of what I have said.

Goodnight.

 

[posthuman]

More misrepresentation of what I have said.

is it?

I did not say Adam had sinful desire in him from the day he was created. He had a desire to eat the fruit just as Christ had a desire not be tortured to death.

when did Adam start developing evil desires in his heart, according to what you've been taught and now parrot?

not day one, huh?
day 2? day 8?
year 13? 33?

at what point did sinless Adam become evil in his heart? i'd really like to know what caused this, since now you say he wasn't created this way, and it happened before he ever sinned - so, do tell..?

how does a person who had no concept whatsoever of good and desirable vs bad and undesirable develop an evil desire, undeceived, knowing the desire is evil, without a clue what the word evil means?

 

[posthuman]

1 Timothy 2:14​

Adam was not deceived​

 

[sawdust]

is it?

yes

 

[Beckworth]

I cant find anything that says you can repent and be forgiven if you are willing. The closest thing to being beyond repentance is Hebrews 6:4, and Is kinda awkward translation wise, the way I see it is you can't start all over again afresh per say, but you will suffer losses, and the more time you waste sinning the less you're going to be worth in the end. Understand that verse was written to get people to move beyond the basics and mature as Christians, a problem with witch I still suffer.

Have you considered Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8? He had just “believed” and was “baptized” (verse 18) and then sinned (verse 19-20). He was told to “repent” and “pray”.
The parable of the prodigal son is about a child of God falling away, repenting, and returning to his Father.

 

[Beckworth]

There was no loss of salvation here for Simon. Only a failure to receive it. Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) You call that saved? Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.

You do not have the ability to read “hearts”. In Mark 16:16, Jesus says that “HE WHO BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED.” I know you do not believe that- even though Jesus the Son of God said it—but I DO. That is exactly what Simon did. So I know he was saved. I trust what Jesus said. YOU do not. As for Simon, the miracles and signs which it says he saw were there JUST FOR THAT PURPOSE—to convince people to obey God. Mark 16:20 says those “miracles”and “signs”. Were what God used to CONFIRM the preaching of the apostles. Hebrews 2:3-4. This is why most of the people in the first century obeyed the gospel. In verse 6 (Acts 8) the MULTITUDES “ HEEDED THE THINGS SPOKEN BY PHILLIP, HEARING AND SEEING THE MIRACLES HE DID.” Did that make them UNSAVED people, too? If that were true, then none of the believers in Samaria were really saved! And yet, the Holy Spirit says there was great JOY in that city (verse 8) because of all the conversions to Christ that were.made. In Verse 19 the HOLY SPIRIT writes that “ SAMARIA HAD RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD.” But I guess YOU know better than the Holy Spirit. It’s SO TYPICAL of all John Calvinists followers to say that. This is what they rely on anytime they cannot explain scripture that plainly shows their doctrine to be false. They are following a MAN, and they cannot accept the PlAIN words of God in the Bible, so their only defense is to say “they were not saved in the first place.” To any who might be reading this post—look for it , every time.

God’s word is simple and plain. He says just what He means. 2 Peter 3:16 Peter said that “untaught and unstable people “wrest” the scriptures to their own destruction.” I have not “wrested” Mark 16:16-simply quoted EXACTLY what Jesus said. I believe EXACTLY. What Jesus said. I did not misquote what Acts 8 said. I believe exactly what the Holy Spirit wrote. But you have tried to put a “Twist” on it to make it mean something OTHER than what the Holy Spirit said. I am not writing this for you, but for the ones who might read this post. Let them decide what the scriptures say.