Loss of salvation???

[Musicmaster]

I asked this of the AI false god:

=============================
What does it mean when Paul said that had the princes known of the mystery, they would not have crucified the lord of glory?
=============================

The AI false god said this:
=============================
When Paul says, "had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Corinthians 2:8), he is referring to a divine mystery—God’s hidden wisdom—that was not understood by the rulers or powers at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion.

Here's a breakdown of what this means:
1. "The princes of this world"

This phrase can refer to two overlapping categories:

• Human rulers (like Pontius Pilate, Herod, and the Jewish religious leaders) who orchestrated or allowed Jesus’ crucifixion.
• Spiritual powers (demonic or satanic forces) behind worldly systems of power. Paul often speaks of “rulers” and “principalities” in this spiritual sense (e.g., Ephesians 6:12).

2. "The mystery" or "hidden wisdom"

Paul is speaking about God's redemptive plan through the crucifixion of Christ, which had been hidden in ages past (v. 7). This “mystery” is the gospel—God’s plan to bring salvation through a suffering Messiah, which defied human expectations of power and victory.

3. "They would not have crucified the Lord of glory"

If the rulers—spiritual or human—had understood the full significance and outcome of crucifying Jesus (that it would lead to the salvation of humanity and the defeat of sin and death), they would not have gone through with it. By crucifying Him, they actually fulfilled God's sovereign plan, unknowingly contributing to their own defeat.

In essence:

Paul is saying that the death of Jesus was not a failure but a part of God's hidden plan. The rulers didn’t grasp this plan; had they known the crucifixion would lead to Christ’s ultimate victory and their own defeat, they wouldn’t have done it...

=============================

Pure nonsense! Jesus Himself revealed to His disciples AGAIN what the prophets had spoken of old, which is that Christ would die and be raised up.

What, are people here now going to claim that Paul was a liar and false teacher when he said this:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul wasn't talking about the four gospels conveniently printed in book form in the back pockets of those first century believers. They had scrolls, some of which weighed 50 pounds or more. My pants would not have stayed up with that much weight in my back pocket...

Additionally, Satan THOUGHT he knew what he was doing because he had no problem with Israel being cleansed and redeemed because her history was such that she failed at bringing the message of salvation to the world before the coming of Messiah, so he had no reason to believe they were going to succeeding to any greater degree by bringing in billions of Gentiles after the coming of Messiah.

BUT, what the enemy of our souls did NOT know about was the coming of the Gospel of Grace after the fall of Israel whereby Gentiles could THEN enter in without the Law and without Israel being that portal.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So you see, that stupid god of this world to which far too many professing believers are appealing, if only just one, that false god is going to mislead many. I can see it here in this forum. AI is giving out false information, some of which is rooted in Evangelical falsehoods by way of Calvinism, Amillennialism, Gnosticism, Agnosticism and many other systems of false beliefs rooted in allegorical interpretational methodology rather than to read scripture for what it actually says.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Did you catch that? Salvation CAME TO (...come unto...) the Gentiles through the fall of Israel. Salvation, then, was not available directly TO Gentiles until AFTER the fall of Israel.

Words have meaning, contrary to all those who say "...like..." in almost every or every other sentence they speak to one another.

MM

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Moot point.

We will not be here for when the mark will be administered.

That era involves believers of a different future dispensation.

God has always warned believers to remain steadfast in their faith, leaning on God for our strength. Peter who understood very will the cost of not being prepared, to the point that, he relying on his own strength he actually denied the Lord. We have to be prepared. He did not promise that we would always overcome no matter whether we exercise faith or not. Looking back at history we see that many Christians did not remain true out of fear. We are not automatically inoculated against whatever trials we will face in the days to come.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Did you catch that? Salvation CAME TO (...come unto...) the Gentiles through the fall of Israel. Salvation, then, was not available directly TO Gentiles until AFTER the fall of Israel.

Words have meaning, contrary to all those who say "...like..." in almost every or every other sentence they speak to one another.

MM

The Princes of this world refers not to the Roman Soldiers or even the Governor over Judeas. World rulers refers to spiritual/demonic forces who were manipulating and driving the worldly rulers to kill Jesus.
…11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. (Ephesians 6:11-12)

Before that moment, they could not touch him. Even in the garden God was protecting Jesus. We see this when He said said I AM HE they all fell fell backwards to the ground. After that they got up and seized Jesus.

You are wrong about the Gentiles not having salvation under the Old Covenant. They had it if they submitted to the law and became prosylites

 

[Musicmaster]

God has always warned believers to remain steadfast in their faith, leaning on God for our strength. Peter who understood very will the cost of not being prepared, to the point that, he relying on his own strength he actually denied the Lord. We have to be prepared. He did not promise that we would always overcome no matter whether we exercise faith or not. Looking back at history we see that many Christians did not remain true out of fear. We are not automatically inoculated against whatever trials we will face in the days to come.

Some good points. Blessedly, none of that ever nullified anyone's salvation because, otherwise, the Blood of Christ would have been insufficient, with the sufficiency of His Blood being contingent upon which direction one happened to be looking from the point of salvation. Many seem to think that looking backward from the point of salvation, all is forgiven, but allegedly looking forward, suddenly the Blood of Christ somehow loses it's sufficiency in some people's warped system of theology on the basis of performance, which is still works-based salvation.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The Princes of this world refers not to the Roman Soldiers or even the Governor over Judeas. World rulers refers to spiritual/demonic forces who were manipulating and driving the worldly rulers to kill Jesus.
…11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. (Ephesians 6:11-12)

Before that moment, they could not touch him. Even in the garden God was protecting Jesus. We see this when He said said I AM HE they all fell fell backwards to the ground. After that they got up and seized Jesus.

You are wrong about the Gentiles not having salvation under the Old Covenant. They had it if they submitted to the law and became prosylites

Why did you say that? Your last statement is precisely what I was saying...Gentiles had to enter in through Israel (as proselytes) to enter in for rewards in Heaven and to be partakers of the blessings of Abraham. There was no other way. With Israel's fall, that is when salvation came directly to Gentiles apart from Israel and rewards through obedience to the Law.

So, I remain confused as to how you missed what I said.

MM

 

[GWH]

Again, the new god among many today known as AI has yet again missed the mark:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Now, the crucifixion of Christ and the resurrection of Christ was known before it happened, so that was not the mystery. The god AI missed all that. That false god did mention that Paul preached what he had received from no other man. When you put all this together, the claim of it not being unique is just plain false. The fact that this false god missed the differences between Peter's gospel and Paul's gospel, that too drives home in a very hard and violent manner the fact that they are not one and the same. Peter's preaching of the crucifixion of Christ the Messiah was spoken as an indictment against Israel, which is what pricked their hearts.

No man, angel or demon knew of Gentiles being able to enter in, apart from becoming Jews, for not only salvation but also partakers of the blessings of Abraham.

Dude, that god of this world among many is misleading and downright incapable of biblical reasoning. It presents only data that is bereft of theological rules for interpretation that align with what the word of God is saying. It's my hope that you do not begin to worship that false god and accept what it teaches you. It's as false as many of the religions out there that teach works-based salvation for us today, which Peter taught for Israel, and was true for them at that time, but is now long past.

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Peter's gospel was true to those to whom it was intended, but it was not intended for us today. Do you get the picture here? Not all truth is FOR us today, was not written TO us today to be followed.

You and most all the rest of us here are all dispensational, because I have money in my cloths that says you and they do not run out and offer up animal sacrifices for your sins. There are many Jews and Hebrew Roots people out there who think that animal sacrifices MUST be reinstated, with all of them having various claims for emphasis as to the significance for that reinstatement rather than to realize that such acts are nothing but a continued denial of the Blood of Christ Jesus.

Please consider what the word of God says rather than what that new, man-made god called AI tells you. It may seem logical, but it is not consistent with the word of God gleaned through systematic study. Notice how that silly god you appeal to left out the mystery the princes (demons and Satan) of this world did not know, and had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. Man, how much more clear could it be? AI is under the control of Satan because it originated from this world and the flawed wisdom of men...

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Nobody will be foolish enough to stand before the Lord at judgement and try to say, "But, Lord, AI said this was true. It had more data available to it than I could have ever held in my head!"

Fear what the Lord will say to such nonsense.

MM

I believe you are essentially correct, but I would like to tweak this part:

Paul - If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal. 1:8-9)

Peter - His gospel was true to those to whom it was intended, but it was not intended for us today.

Actually, Peter's version merely allows Jews to believe and practice parts of their tradition that do not contradict Paul's gospel per Acts 15:21. There are Messianic Jews who do this today.

My understanding of the gospel on which both Paul and Peter agreed is this:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4, EZK 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Do we all agree?
Sorry that my Scripture refs are not in the CC format,
(but some of us still use the paper Bible :^)

 

[Genez]

God has always warned believers to remain steadfast in their faith, leaning on God for our strength. Peter who understood very will the cost of not being prepared, to the point that, he relying on his own strength he actually denied the Lord. We have to be prepared. He did not promise that we would always overcome no matter whether we exercise faith or not. Looking back at history we see that many Christians did not remain true out of fear. We are not automatically inoculated against whatever trials we will face in the days to come.

Something tells me that you are determined and marching in your flesh....

You need to get much more doctrine than you now possess, as to enter His faith-rest.

 

[PaulThomson]

You bet it is. What Jesus preached was true for those to whom He spoke that gospel. What Paul spoke to Gentiles was/is also true, and was/is meant for Gentiles all the way up to this very day and beyond until the rapture.

Now, the acid test for this is the very words of Paul. Some believe he was an outright liar, and that's on them. Paul clearly stated that his gospel was hidden in God from before the creation of the world, and was a mystery until revealed to him first.

What that means is that his gospel given to him directly be Jesus was not ever spoken before, because it would then NOT have been a mystery. Can we agree with that?

For them out there to call Paul a liar runs directly into calling Jesus a liar as well, given that Paul received it from Jesus Himself.

MM

Which scripture are you basing this claim on?

 

[Musicmaster]

Which scripture are you basing this claim on?

1 Corinthians 2:2, 5-8
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. ...
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul knew very well what the eleven had taught given that he was persecuting and having murdered those who followed the Kingdom Gospel. Paul's gospel was not as was theirs to Israel. Paul's gospel was unique, with Paul the apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter, James or John.

So, the claim was made by Paul, not myself or anyone else in these days of ours. There are those who refuse to believe what scripture says, instead desiring to follow after the allegorical system of doctrinal interpretation where the teachers and students can make scripture say what they want it to say.

Does this answer your question?

MM

 

[PaulThomson]

1 Corinthians 2:2, 5-8
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. ...
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul knew very well what the eleven had taught given that he was persecuting and having murdered those who followed the Kingdom Gospel. Paul's gospel was not as was theirs to Israel. Paul's gospel was unique, with Paul the apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter, James or John.

So, the claim was made by Paul, not myself or anyone else in these days of ours. There are those who refuse to believe what scripture says, instead desiring to follow after the allegorical system of doctrinal interpretation where the teachers and students can make scripture say what they want it to say.

Does this answer your question?

MM

Yes. I see the scriptures you are basing your theory on, but I do not see your theory in the texts.
They do not say Paul's gospel was unique abd different from Peter's. Paul does say he got his understanding of the gospel directly from the resurrected Jesus. but we find that when Paul compared his teaching to that of the other apostles, it was the same, only Paul was sent with it to the gentiles, while Peter was sent with it to the Jews.


2 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Genez]

Again, the new god among many today known as AI has yet again missed the mark:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Now, the crucifixion of Christ and the resurrection of Christ was known before it happened, so that was not the mystery. The god AI missed all that. That false god did mention that Paul preached what he had received from no other man. When you put all this together, the claim of it not being unique is just plain false. The fact that this false god missed the differences between Peter's gospel and Paul's gospel, that too drives home in a very hard and violent manner the fact that they are not one and the same. Peter's preaching of the crucifixion of Christ the Messiah was spoken as an indictment against Israel, which is what pricked their hearts.

No man, angel or demon knew of Gentiles being able to enter in, apart from becoming Jews, for not only salvation but also partakers of the blessings of Abraham.

Dude, that god of this world among many is misleading and downright incapable of biblical reasoning. It presents only data that is bereft of theological rules for interpretation that align with what the word of God is saying. It's my hope that you do not begin to worship that false god and accept what it teaches you. It's as false as many of the religions out there that teach works-based salvation for us today, which Peter taught for Israel, and was true for them at that time, but is now long past.

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Peter's gospel was true to those to whom it was intended, but it was not intended for us today. Do you get the picture here? Not all truth is FOR us today, was not written TO us today to be followed.

You and most all the rest of us here are all dispensational, because I have money in my cloths that says you and they do not run out and offer up animal sacrifices for your sins. There are many Jews and Hebrew Roots people out there who think that animal sacrifices MUST be reinstated, with all of them having various claims for emphasis as to the significance for that reinstatement rather than to realize that such acts are nothing but a continued denial of the Blood of Christ Jesus.

Please consider what the word of God says rather than what that new, man-made god called AI tells you. It may seem logical, but it is not consistent with the word of God gleaned through systematic study. Notice how that silly god you appeal to left out the mystery the princes (demons and Satan) of this world did not know, and had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. Man, how much more clear could it be? AI is under the control of Satan because it originated from this world and the flawed wisdom of men...

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Nobody will be foolish enough to stand before the Lord at judgement and try to say, "But, Lord, AI said this was true. It had more data available to it than I could have ever held in my head!"

Fear what the Lord will say to such nonsense.

MM

Musicmaster... could you please take a moment and explain in what manner and meaning is the term, "Gospel"being used?

I believe that is what might be causing some not to agree.
For the term Gospel might be thought of and defined in different terms by some.

grace and peace .............

 

[Inquisitor]

Did you catch that? Salvation CAME TO (...come unto...) the Gentiles through the fall of Israel. Salvation, then, was not available directly TO Gentiles until AFTER the fall of Israel.

Words have meaning, contrary to all those who say "...like..." in almost every or every other sentence they speak to one another.

MM

So when was the fall of Israel?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Something tells me that you are determined and marching in your flesh....

You need to get much more doctrine than you now possess, as to enter His faith-rest.

So without any discussing anything with me you have determined that what I need is more doctrine. Just WHICH doctrine I should believe in MORE you never say. You seem to automatically think Christians who are determined to follow Christ are somehow deficient in their understanding. Hence you say, to someone you do not even know that they are "marching in the flesh" Can Christians BY THE SPIRIT not serve God?

28Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
(Matthew 11:28-30)
Faith is more than accepting a doctrinal proposition ABOUT Him. It is the personal surrender of ourselves to Him.
13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.…(Romans 8:13)

 

[Genez]

Did you catch that? Salvation CAME TO (...come unto...) the Gentiles through the fall of Israel. Salvation, then, was not available directly TO Gentiles until AFTER the fall of Israel.

Words have meaning, contrary to all those who say "...like..." in almost every or every other sentence they speak to one another.

MM

Romans 9-11 emphasizes that God's covenant with Israel remains valid, and He has not rejected His chosen people. God's plan of salvation includes both Jews and Gentiles, and He uses the Gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy, ultimately leading them to salvation.



Israel has not fallen, as in being finished forever.
God has simply put Israel on hold.

On hold until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
Then?
The Rapture!

After the Rapture God will commence once more using the Jews as His people, having Jerusalem in Israel as the capital of the world under God for the Millennium.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 9-11 emphasizes that God's covenant with Israel remains valid, and He has not rejected His chosen people. God's plan of salvation includes both Jews and Gentiles, and He uses the Gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy, ultimately leading them to salvation.



Israel has not fallen, as in being finished forever.
God has simply put Israel on hold.

On hold until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
Then?
The Rapture!

After the Rapture God will commence once more using the Jews as His people, having Jerusalem in Israel as the capital of the world under God for the Millennium.

Under what covenant?

 

[Genez]

So without any discussing anything with me you have determined that what I need is more doctrine. Just WHICH doctrine I should believe in MORE you never say. You seem to automatically think Christians who are determined to follow Christ are somehow deficient in their understanding. Hence you say, to someone you do not even know that they are "marching in the flesh" Can Christians BY THE SPIRIT not serve God?

28Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
(Matthew 11:28-30)
Faith is more than accepting a doctrinal proposition ABOUT Him. It is the personal surrender of ourselves to Him.
13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.…(Romans 8:13)

Zeal without knowledge is what you presently suffer from. Proverbs 19:2

It is easily curable.

 

[Genez]

Under what covenant?

If I do not name a specific covenant?
Does that nullify the truth about the Jews?

Even after all the Bible has to say specifically about the Jew's future with God?

The covenant with Abraham is still functioning.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations ​

will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we ​

have heard that God is with you. ' ” Zechariah 8:23​

​

​

.....​

 

[JimiSurvivor]

If a Christian decides

Zeal without knowledge is what you presently suffer from. Proverbs 19:2

Zeal without knowledge is what you presently suffer from. Proverbs 19:2

It is easily curable.

Zeal without knowledge is what you presently suffer from. Proverbs 19:2
It is easily curable.

2205 zḗlos (an omamopoeic term that mimics the sound of water bubbling over from heat and perhaps derived from 2204 /zéō, "to boil") – properly, burning emotion (inner feeling boiling over, "boiling from heat," J. Thayer); (figuratively) something very fervent ("red-hot")
No, this is not what I suffer from. My emotions, are restrained because I have a mental illness and must take anticonvulsants to restrain my emotions. The result is that I now have too few emotions. So you see you are totally off base. Your ideas do not account for the breadth of human experience. You would have done better listening before assumed.

 

[Musicmaster]

Yes. I see the scriptures you are basing your theory on, but I do not see your theory in the texts.
They do not say Paul's gospel was unique abd different from Peter's. Paul does say he got his understanding of the gospel directly from the resurrected Jesus. but we find that when Paul compared his teaching to that of the other apostles, it was the same, only Paul was sent with it to the gentiles, while Peter was sent with it to the Jews.


2 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The problem with your theory is that it missed the glaring difference between Peter's gospel in Acts 2 and Paul's gospel in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Peter specifically stated to Israel the requirement to be baptized unto the remission of sins. Paul's gospel to the Gentiles made no such demands. Paul even argued that any work for salvation nullifies it being by grace. So, it really is not that hard to see the differences apart from accusing Paul for the sin of omission in relation to a writing he had to have known was for posterity.

The lazy argument that has been put forth in other postings is that Paul was allegedly summerizing. That argument is less than pathetic in the agenda behind trying to harmonize things that are not similar in every respect.

MM