Loss of salvation???

[Musicmaster]

HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELEIVED?

Believing is the means by which we receive salvation and Holy Spirit.

Some Charismatic groups believe otherwise, but their beliefs are of no consequence.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELEIVED?

Believing is the means by which we receive salvation and Holy Spirit.

Some Charismatic groups believe otherwise, but their beliefs are of no consequence.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

According to you maybe? I don't have a clue just hope the seeds I planted grow. The list I shared that is not bible is a long one.

Looking at his word there are a lot of fokes who THINKS they are reborn and ARE NOT!!!

Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version



21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That is why I ask questions? Like have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

How were you baptized?

Not many people bother to even answer? Wonder why?

“21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

I’m not sure this has anything to do with who gets baptized more in line with how we treat other people

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous( those who acted in love towards others especially those in need ) into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬ ‭KJV


“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Ouch]

1 Corinthians 14:22​

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.​

Acts 2:33
King James Version
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Mark 16:17
King James Version
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Just before 14:22

1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[Ouch]

Ephesians 2:8-9​

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.​

Ephesians 1

King James Version



1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you,

 

[Ouch]

happily

Is JESUS happy?

 

[Ouch]

I gave to you scripture many times that you ignored entirely with your tirade going onward unabated.

MM

Still no scripture.

 

[Ouch]

Believing is the means by which we receive salvation and Holy Spirit.

Some Charismatic groups believe otherwise, but their beliefs are of no consequence.

MM

Stop sharing ALL OF YOUR WISDOM and start sharing HIS WORD!!

Back up what you say, if you can't???

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch

some human convinced you your child-like faith in Christ's work was worthless.
and convinced you your obedient baptism was worthless.

he convinced you you should go and preach to believers that their faith was worthless, their obedient baptism and their good conscience toward God were all worthless, and that they needed to seek material signs and wonders.


i disagree with that man.

JESUS speaking.
John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That is the man who tought me.

NEED TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT!!

DID HE LIE TO ME, IT'S EITHER YOU OR HIM? Which one?

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch

some human convinced you your child-like faith in Christ's work was worthless.
and convinced you your obedient baptism was worthless.

he convinced you you should go and preach to believers that their faith was worthless, their obedient baptism and their good conscience toward God were all worthless, and that they needed to seek material signs and wonders.


i disagree with that man.

JESUS speaking.
John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That is the man who tought me.

NEED TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT!!

DID HE LIE TO ME, IT'S EITHER YOU OR HIM? Which one?

He's the one YOU disagree with, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch

some human convinced you your child-like faith in Christ's work was worthless.
and convinced you your obedient baptism was worthless.

he convinced you you should go and preach to believers that their faith was worthless, their obedient baptism and their good conscience toward God were all worthless, and that they needed to seek material signs and wonders.


i disagree with that man.

JESUS speaking.
John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That is the man who tought me.

NEED TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT!!

DID HE LIE TO ME, IT'S EITHER YOU OR HIM? Which one?

He's the one YOU disagree with, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 

[Sipsey]

I’ seem to be hearing a broken record.

 

[posthuman]

Just before 14:22

1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

yeah it says don't desire to speak in tongues, because it doesn't edify anyone but possibly yourself. in other words it's selfish to seek it, especially in a church.

1 Corinthians 14:19​

I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. ​

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch

some human convinced you your child-like faith in Christ's work was worthless.
and convinced you your obedient baptism was worthless.

he convinced you you should go and preach to believers that their faith was worthless, their obedient baptism and their good conscience toward God were all worthless, and that they needed to seek material signs and wonders.


i disagree with that man.

JESUS speaking.
John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That is the man who tought me.

NEED TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT!!

DID HE LIE TO ME, IT'S EITHER YOU OR HIM? Which one?

He's the one YOU disagree with, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 

[Ouch]

yeah it says don't desire to speak in tongues, because it doesn't edify anyone but possibly yourself. in other words it's selfish to seek it, especially in a church.

1 Corinthians 14:19​

I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. ​

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

A lot happens when being filled with the Holy Ghost, Read ALL of chapter not just one or two verses.

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[posthuman]

Read ALL of chapter not just one or two verses.

Seek and ye shall find.

he says, quoting only one verse, ignoring all the verses around it that say prophesying is better than speaking in tongues, speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers not for believers, that it shouldn't be desired, that if no one can interpret you should shut up, that even if there is an interpreter no more than 1 or 2 should speak, that especially in a church it's 1,000 times more useless than saying one coherent thing in a language everyone understands, and that not everyone speaks in tongues and that does not in any way whatsoever indicate they are unsaved, that they don't have the Spirit or that they need to be baptized again with a new magic formula.

amen read the whole chapter, Ouch.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

yeah it says don't desire to speak in tongues, because it doesn't edify anyone but possibly yourself. in other words it's selfish to seek it, especially in a church.

1 Corinthians 14:19​

I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. ​

He doesn’t say don’t desire to speak in tongues he’s saying it’s much more valuable to speak coherently because whoever listens will be edified but if I speak in diverse tongues no one’s going to know what I’m saying unless there’s also someone with the gift of interpretation present to interpret what was said.

He explains that tongues is beneficial to the individual speaking to God but it doesn’t help anyone else . in another place he explains the gifts are divided so that some are prophets , some speak in tongues and some interpret ect not everyone will speak in tongues or work miracles or have a gift of healing or have done extraordinary faith when they pray for others like he tells us in the spiritual gifts teachings of the body and how they are meant to all operate together and specifically for the edification and growing and nourishment of the entire body



that some receive gift of prophecy others the gift of tongues Both have tbier place but prophecy is the much better gift to desire because it helps others who listen. And tongues only confuses people if there’s no one to interpret what is said at some point elsewhere he says if there’s no one to interpret the person speaking tongues should keep silent in church.

 

[Ouch]

he says, quoting only one verse, ignoring all the verses around it that say prophesying is better than speaking in tongues, speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers not for believers, that it shouldn't be desired, that if no one can interpret you should shut up, that even if there is an interpreter no more than 1 or 2 should speak, that especially in a church it's 1,000 times more useless than saying one coherent thing in a language everyone understands, and that not everyone speaks in tongues and that does not in any way whatsoever indicate they are unsaved, that they don't have the Spirit or that they need to be baptized again with a new magic formula.

amen read the whole chapter, Ouch.

I don't care if you get filled or not, it has nothing to do with me!!

It's my job to share HIS word, my job in done.

Your walk is between you and him and HIS WORD.

Fyi, in every case of people being reborn they were bapzied and received the Holy Ghost.

Gospel rebirth scriptures

(Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish) The group did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. However, they were told they could expect the Holy Ghost at some point.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:13-14
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[cv5]

He doesn’t say don’t desire to speak in tongues he’s saying it’s much more valuable to speak coherently because whoever listens will be edified but if I speak in diverse tongues no one’s going to know what I’m saying unless there’s also someone with the gift of interpretation present to interpret what was said.

He explains that tongues is beneficial to the individual speaking to God but it doesn’t help anyone else . in another place he explains the gifts are divided so that some are prophets , some speak in tongues and some interpret ect not everyone will speak in tongues or work miracles or have a gift of healing or have done extraordinary faith when they pray for others like he tells us in the spiritual gifts teachings of the body and how they are meant to all operate together and specifically for the edification and growing and nourishment of the entire body



that some receive gift of prophecy others the gift of tongues Both have tbier place but prophecy is the much better gift to desire because it helps others who listen. And tongues only confuses people if there’s no one to interpret what is said at some point elsewhere he says if there’s no one to interpret the person speaking tongues should keep silent in church.

As far as I can tell, tongues is pretty much useless in the Church today, because the Scriptures have been translated into most native tongues.

And as far as I can tell, so-called tongues today is for the most part bogus. When compared to the real deal in Scripture.

 

[sawdust]

Acts 2:33
King James Version
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Mark 16:17
King James Version
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Just before 14:22

1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

What did you prophesy when you were baptized?