Loss of salvation???
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In reality, the emphasis is on the past action (passive/Christ did the saving.) It was a completed action in the past at a point.
Based upon that completed action, we are presently saved. A static present.....A reality that will always be present for the saved.
If the past completed action could possibly "be undone" Paul could not, with CERTAINTY, say we are presently saved.
It was a perfectly completed action in the past at some point.......Acts 16:31......Eternal security at its finest.
In reality, the emphasis is on the past action (passive/Christ did the saving.) It was a completed action in the past at a point.
Based upon that completed action, we are presently saved. A static present.....A reality that will always be present for the saved.
If the past completed action could possibly "be undone" Paul could not, with CERTAINTY, say we are presently saved.
It was a perfectly completed action in the past at some point.......Acts 16:31......Eternal security at its finest.
Excellent!!
Thank you, you have more patience than me.
I would guess you got this from your teacher, correct? Who and where if you'd like to link me to it?In reality, the emphasis is on the past action (passive/Christ did the saving.) It was a completed action in the past at a point.
Based upon that completed action, we are presently saved. A static present.....A reality that will always be present for the saved.
If the past completed action could possibly "be undone" Paul could not, with CERTAINTY, say we are presently saved.
It was a perfectly completed action in the past at some point.......Acts 16:31......Eternal security at its finest.
It builds a static state and inserts a future ("A reality that will always be present") that is not in the perfect tense. That's the point, the perfect tense says nothing about the future.
A past completed action that is used for a present condition is what the perfect tense says - but it makes no assertion about continuation of the present condition.
Are we switching to Acts16:31 so we can start with error and carry it forward?
Approval from a club member.
You'll need patience if you expect to change my understanding of the Greek Perfect Tense. There are a few who might be able to do better at the argument than you, but you two club associates are not them.
I'm happy to post the explanation of the Perfect Tense from at least one advanced Greek grammar textbook if you'd like to read it. It's not too long (IMO). I have read other research in the ongoing discussions about the Perfect Tense and have seen nothing that suggests this lack of comment on the future is debatable.
Care to do some reading or happy where you are?
It really is, but your background I'm sure has provided some insight into the issues involved.
Where does the NT state that our salvation cannot be revoked?
Do you have any supporting scritpure?
Or are you all talk?
Peter, who was trained and taught by Jesus...
said this:
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
You have a problem with the word IF.
Do you also have a problem with the word RETURNS.
A DOG RETURNS TO HIS VOMIT.
A PIG RETURNS TO WALLOWING IN THE MIRE.
IF you RETURN somewhere, it means:
YOU WERE THERE BEFORE. unsaved
THEN YOU LEFT. saved
THEN YOU RETURNED TO WHERE YOU WERE. unsaved
You say you're positionally sanctified.
So you're positioned as righteous before God the moment you're justified.
Is a person still positoinally sanctified before God after 3 years and the person is still
living a life of sin:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
IF after 3 years (pick a number) you're STILL
practicing adultery
stealing
coveting
drinking to become drunk
etc
Are you STILL sanctified?
You think Jesus died on the cross for FELLOWSHIP??
Do you think you're having fellowship with Jesus if
YOU DO NOT OBEY HIM?
Jesus said that if we do NOT ACT on HIS WORDS/TEACHINGS,,,,
we are like the house built on sand.
IT FELL.
Matthew 7:24-26
He met HIS CONDITIONS so that YOU could be saved.
YOU also have conditions that are to be met.
Matthew 25:41-46
41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’
45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
A different member on this Forum stated that God wants NOTHING in return for the free gift of salvation.
The above teaching BY JESUS says the opposite.
Also, thinking God requires NOTHING from a person...
after JESUS DIED ON A CROSS for that person....
Is the epitomy of pride and egotism.
Some want Jesus as Savior
but not as Lord.
Some are afraid of God and so make up their own theories about our faith.
Some feel they aren't doing enough so they find excuses.
Some are sinning and would like to continue doing so.
Some feel insecure and project that inssecurity onto others.
Some like to stay in their comfort zone and will never move out of it.
They will NOT study for fear of where it might take them.
A person listens to two preachers.
One states that you can never lose salvation once you have it.
Sounds pretty good.
And these are always those on these Forums that are the most snarky persons...
always making silly comments and post nothing of substance. (most of them anyway).
A person listens to another preacher.
He states that we can be assured of our salvation as long as we remain IN CHRIST and, of course, obey Him.
The preacher teaches them that a person will be transformed if he allows the Holy Spirit to work in him.
Which of the two persons will have a better outcome?
The word of God is powerful and able to save.
If it is properly taught.
James 1:19-22
19This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;
20for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God. 2
1Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
Typical.
It's sad really.
I do want to remind you that God sees everything you do and everything you say.
Are you glorifying God with your terrible behavior?
No. You're not.
But don't worry.......
you're save anyway....
RIGHT?
I'll also be watching the video on bible versions since you seem to think that NONE are reliable.....
Are you the member that stated that only the Greek is inspired?
Actually, you're the one committing the logical fallacy(ies). You were asked to provide evidence for your claim. That's a legitimate request.
I will say that that discussing with some of these posters is way better than trying to discuss positions of disagreement with the hard-core Reformed about TULIP, for example.
False doctrine should not be treated with respect but should be ridiculed just as Paul did, especially one which teaches Jesus saves only a bit.
And by the way Jesus The Christ is Lord we do not make Him Lord.
Just another failed attempt to back load works onto what is actually a free and complete gift of salvation.
I've found them also to be difficult.
Ditto for most Catholics.
I think the reason is that they get so much push-back that it just becomes
frustrating to have any discussion at all.
Because you believe they can lose their salvation. God saved us from the consequences of sin by making us alive in Christ but according to you that is not lasting based on the verb usage. As it was by the Lord's grace alone we were made alive, one must assume only the Lord can take back that life. Afterall, it is His life we are given.
Where did Paul ridicule dotrine?
Jesus saves to the fullest.
Do you know ANY theology at all?
1 John 2:2
......Jesus Christ the righteous;
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Yes sir.
Jesus IS LORD.
He does not require your permission to be Lord.
But He does require your permission to be Lord of Your life.
Romans 6.23
23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Justificaiton is a gift.
Unfortunately for you...
Sanctification must be earned.
It involves WORKS and obedience...
if we obey...we do good works.
No obedience
No works/good deeds
No sanctification.
No sanctification,
No justification,
No justification,
No salvation.
John 12:44-48 JESUS said:
44And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
46“I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
47“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
John 10:27-28
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
The sheep that belong to Jesus hear His voice....
and they FOLLOW Him...
And He gives to His sheep that HEAR his voice and FOLLOW Him eteranl life.
And NO ONE will snatch those that HEAR the voice of Jesus and FOLLOW Him out of His hand.
Some do not HEAR.
They do not FOLLOW Him.
Jesus does not know them.
so He cannot give them eternal life.