I don't really care about silly comments.
I take theology seriously.
What I do know is THIS.
If a person wants to go to heaven...
he can.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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I take theology seriously.
What I do know is THIS.
If a person wants to go to heaven...
he can.
Really?
That's quite a statement Roger.
First of all it's not true.
Secondly,,,how would you know?
satan follows EVERYONE around...
and especially his arch enemy...Jesus.
What if they don't wish? Doesn't this line of thinking end up in the same place? After all, what else can we say about those who believed the gospel and didn't fall away? God saved the lucky few?
But isn't God being partial to those who believe and persevere?
Do you know who will be saved? Can someone be saved apart from the gospel? Can a Calvinist not say...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved? You limit the Calvinist in ways scripture does not. And the gospel is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Every new testament doctrine flows from this.
My only point to you is that you make claims you can't possibly prove - and I showed you which one. Then you shift the Burden of Proof because you don't respect obligations to prove your claims.
G&P.
What I said is true, if you care to look for yourself. There are three times that the gospels mention Satan: The temptation of Christ, Jesus speaking to Peter, and Judas' betrayal. Other than those three times, there is no Biblical passage supporting that Satan followed anyone anywhere.
This was the challenge: to find someone who doesn't believe this. You can't. Thanks for your honesty.
The lack of evidence of no one coming forth with anyone who doesn't believe heaven is populated with a number no man can number is your proof. Now, produce one and show me false.
Calvinists believe in limited atonement. I disagree with them on this issue. Calvinists had the wrong idea about atonement.
I never said otherwise. I said limited atonement doesn't equate to few in heaven.
Glad to discuss limited atonement with you sometime.
This has encouraged me, especially bringing to mind the notice of sparkling new lives. Not to make any claims of influence toward it but I can at least take from it an assurance that I was not one to discourage it in any case.
Wasn't my point of contention with you. Still isn't - mainly because I've no interest in the topic at this time. Dealing with OSAS per the OP is about all I care to deal with doctrinally. Just noticed another of your absolute statements you can't prove and how you seem to think they're legitimate arguments. Not a good habit. Makes you come across as willing to say anything to assert your claim. There are at least five different fallacies in your one simple claim of 'none'. Take it or leave it.
G&P.
None who believe as I stated have come forward or been proffered. This I believed to be the case. And it is indeed the case. Non-Calvinists are prone to believe that they understand Calvinism better than Calvinists themselves. They don't. They make claims that they Calvinists believe when they do not. I could have structured my response as I have here. I didn't on purpose. In general, the use of superlatives is unwise. But I was confident that no one here could refute the claim, and perhaps see their error.
Grace and peace.
Where do you get "toward?"
All things will come to Him. Everything is His. The lost, the plan, believers, everything on earth and in the cosmos.
Everything is His, the harsh reality is that some of it will be cast out. On judgement day, even the lost are His. The earth and the heaven are His............Some of it is cast out, some of it is saved and some of it is made new.
The believer, a new creation In Him, will never be cast out and has been raised with Him.
How much context do you need? He is saying He came to save as that is the will of the Father who appointed Him as Saviour and all that is given to Him, all who believe, will not be lost to Him and will be raised up on the last day. It is guaranteed by the Father because only those who come to Christ, will be given to Christ so, no pseudo Christians will be raised up.
To me the question is never "can you lose your salvation?", the question is "are you in the faith?" If one is not convinced, (ie has faith Heb.11:1 ) Jesus died for their sin and rose from the dead, I question whether they are a believer.
FYI I'm in Australia so why you guys are typing, I'm sleeping. I come here each morning to find anything from 4 to 8 pages of text. This is why it might seem I am a little slow to respond.
