Loving your enemies

[Sirk]

I wanted to stay on topic, so didn't address this before. You're not my enemy. You're my bro. You've been under some bad teaching (maybe) and you're being hunted by two on this site who really do think they are sinless to join their camp, but you aren't my enemy. If you were, I'd do what I've done to those who want you in their camp -- ignore you.

Just to be clear, I have four blood brothers. I love them, but that doesn't mean we don't argue, and maybe even get into a little cat and dogging fight. (Unfortunately, I'm the dog, so usually lose. lol) I may (and often do) completely disagree with them, but if they need help, I'm there. If needed, I'll even get into a physical fight to help any one of them (or my sister.) Considering that guarantees I'll be hurt unmercifully, (I'm 59, disabled, and a bit chunky, so I am many things but not a physical fighter lol), that's how much I'll stick up for a bro -- blood or spiritual. Just pick me up and dust me off, if I ever have to fight for you physically. lol

Jason doesn't have a chip on his shoulder. That's why I haven't given up on him

 

[DesiredHaven]

Acts 9:1-2 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord,
went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues,
that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

And as Saul is persecuting Jesus (in his diciples) believing he is doing God some service as he journeys on a light from heaven shines

Acts 9:4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord?

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy,
because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The disciples of Christ were simply afraid of Saul who was the persecutor, they themselves were not the persecutors

1 Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Since Isaac's time

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Saul was a chip off the old block of his own father in his doings

 

[Jason0047]

Alleluia! You answered concretely -- like Steven.

Works for me. Thank you.

And you aren't sinless? Whoa! Sorry about that. Then I've misread a whole bunch of your posts ever since I started on here, because I could honestly, as a witness in court, swear you said you don't sin. My mind must be wicked bad. (In a Bostonian way, not truly wicked, since I'm saved too.)

But, honestly, if someone asks you to tell how to love your enemies, and then you post a respond, then, yeah, really, you're supposed to tell how you love your enemies. Otherwise, why respond at all? You don't have to give intimate details, but it does help to know how, ultimately it worked out once and how God got you there.

And, considering Paul was stuck with that thorn in his side most, if not all, of his life, it doesn't have to be a perfect victory. God loves us if we fail miserably, kinda do alright, or triumph gloriously through his work in us. The only thing I think is wrong is to never try for God's will through a situation.

Like I said before, I do not discuss my personal life in detail with folks who are out to judge me. For when I share my personal life, it is for God and those in whom I can trust in the faith. I am here to discuss the Bible because we are in a Bible discussion section on a Christian forum.

 

[jsr1221]

Like I said before, I do not discuss my personal life in detail with folks who are out to judge me. For when I share my personal life, it is for God and those in whom I can trust in the faith. I am here to discuss the Bible because we are in a Bible discussion section on a Christian forum.

What if somebody wanted to ask you for advice on here, and what you would do in a certain situation?

 

[gb9]

Like I said before, I do not discuss my personal life in detail with folks who are out to judge me. For when I share my personal life, it is for God and those in whom I can trust in the faith. I am here to discuss the Bible because we are in a Bible discussion section on a Christian forum.

cool. then stop judging other people. you know, with the same measure you use it will be measured back to you.

 

[Jason0047]

What if somebody wanted to ask you for advice on here, and what you would do in a certain situation?

I am talking about details and or focusing about my life. If someone wants to PM me and I feel I can trust them, then I may share that info. But I would pray about it. We are on a Bible discussion section whereby we discuss the Bible. We are not on Facebook.

 

[Jason0047]

cool. then stop judging other people. you know, with the same measure you use it will be measured back to you.

I strive to attack the doctrine and not the person. Besides, the Lord said we can judge. As long as we judge righteously and not by one's outward appearance. Nowhere do I set out to attack people personally. I am merely relaying to you what God’s Word says about a certain wrong belief. For I did not write the Bible. God did. So don't shoot the messenger.

 

[jsr1221]

I am talking about details and or focusing about my life. If someone wants to PM me and I feel I can trust, then I may share that info. But I would pray about it. We are on a Bible discussion section whereby we discuss the Bible. We are not on Facebook.

People join this site all the time for support and insight on what to do, whether it's working on a marriage, overcoming an addiction, or just getting a better relationship with God in general. I don't know why you think everything but giving Bible verses like candy is considered giving personal information on Facebook.

 

[Sirk]

I strive to attack the doctrine and not the person. Besides, the Lord said we can judge. As long as we judge righteously and not by one's outward appearance. Nowhere do I set out to attack people personally. I am merely relaying to you what God’s Word says about a certain wrong belief. For I did not write the Bible. God did. So don't shoot the messenger.

Youre trying to teach birds to fly.

 

[Jason0047]

People join this site all the time for support and insight on what to do, whether it's working on a marriage, overcoming an addiction, or just getting a better relationship with God in general. I don't know why you think everything but giving Bible verses like candy is considered giving personal information on Facebook.

If people feel they want to share their life, that is up to them. Christan Chat has plenty of places or sections to do that. I don't believe the Bible section on this site is the appropriate place for that; And nor did I join this site with the intention to share my personal life. It is called "Bible discussion" for a reason. You either want to discuss the Bible here or you don't.

 

[jsr1221]

If people feel they want to share their life, that is up to them. Christan Chat has plenty of places or sections to do that. I don't believe the Bible section on this site is the appropriate place for that; And nor did I join this site with the intention to share my personal life. It is called "Bible discussion" for a reason. You either want to discuss the Bible here or you don't.

So you must not be a fan of the "Speak Your Mind" thread in the Bible forum, then.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason doesn't have a chip on his shoulder. That's why I haven't given up on him

Thank you for being kind with your words for a change. But just to let you know, there is absolutely 100% no way I would believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine. I think that such a belief is pure evil.

 

[DesiredHaven]

So you must not be a fan of the "Speak Your Mind" threae in the Bible forum, then.

I was on there I dont recall Jason ever being on there

 

[Jason0047]

I was on there I dont recall Jason ever being on there

I did speak on there briefly but my conversation focused on the Bible. Why? Because that thread is in a Bible discussion section. However, I did not stay long to talk on there because the conversations there had grieved my spirit.

 

[jsr1221]

This is gonna get ignored probably, but if y'all want to disagree with each other or take the original post off topic, do it somewhere else please. Either start a new thread, or pm each other. But no one wants to see public disagreements back and forth on someone's thread. That's it for me on here, and if any of you actually want to help JF Survivor, I'd suggest you do the same. And actually help instead of being a nuisance.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I did speak on there briefly but it was Bible related. Why? Because it is in a Bible discussion section. However, I did not stay long to talk on there because the conversations there had grieved my spirit.

I dont recall seeing you on there, thanks, I actually thought it was an awesome idea for a thread because I always veer off topic, so I thought it was going to be a place where we could post both biblical and allow for veering a little and a little there and get personal.

 

[cmarieh]

I did speak on there briefly but my conversation led to the Bible. Why? Because that thread is in a Bible discussion section. However, I did not stay long to talk on there because the conversations there had grieved my spirit.

I actually enjoy that thread because it is a place of wonderful people who just show God's love and encouragement and much like a church with having fellowship with other believers. Yes, sometimes they all might get a little carried away with things, but they all mean well. I for one have been having a rough time lately and all the people on there has encouraged me and help lifted me up. For example, this morning Sirk encouraged me with my dad having some health concerns requiring surgery. I don't know what I would do without them showing me God's love and what the bible is truly about. To fellowship with other believers is so important because other Christians help strengthen each others personal walk in Christ.

 

[SarahM777]

In the Bible there is a whole slew of verses about loving your enemies. I have some thoughts and some questions on that...

Luke 6:27-36
V.35-36: Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for He is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. You must be compassionate just as your Father is compassionate.

So here is what I am thinking:God loves everyone, even "bad people".

In my mind (and I don't know if God sees it this way, this is just how I see it) there is no such thing as "good" and "bad" people. There is just hurt people. when someone hurts me do I get upset? yes but I also wonder what they are hurting about too.

I think God put these verses in there because He knows hurt people, hurt people and he doesn't want that cycle to continue and the only way to break that cycle is to love those who hurt you. So then the focus is more on helping them than on yourself and how much you are hurt. Of course it is healthy to process your anger and hurt in a healthy way and I think part of that includes seeing that individual who hurt you as another hurt individual. I don't know if that's how it is and I'm not claiming to know the heart of God but I am just saying what I have seen from my experience.

So what do you think about this?

Also, Romans 12:19-21 states that if you are kind to your enemies it will be like heaping burning coals on his head. Why did it say that? It's like "be nice to your enemies so they suffer." I don't get that. I mean is it saying "be nice so the natural consequences come about to that person and they change for the better." or what? I'm all confused. Thoughts?

Part of the problem is most people will take a verse or two out of the context of the passage. (It messes up things BADLY) The WHOLE passage starts at verse 9. Paul is writing about love being sincere. Paul is speaking of agape love.

Romans 12

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[SUP][c][/SUP] Do not be conceited.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][d][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]20 [/SUP]On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[SUP][e][/SUP]


[SUP]21 [/SUP]Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

All the things Paul writes about in that passage is a love that CAN NOT come from the world. It doesn't understand it. It goes against what the world expects of people. When you show agape love to your enemy it goes against what people have been taught. They see the real deal of love in action and it will sink into their hearts and minds and it will touch their conscience one way or another. Try talking about a love that feeds their enemies and to most it either sounds like a good gesture or you're crazy. When it is done in reality it blows their minds.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Its actually an OT idea to do so

Just see Prov 25:21

 

[SarahM777]

Its actually an OT idea to do so

Just see Prov 25:21

Of course whether it's OT or NT it always was about agape love. JFSurvivir was asking about Romans 12:19-22. And actually Paul quotes Proverbs 25:21-22 and Deuteronomy 32:35 in that passage.