Masturbation...Is it really that wrong?

[songster]

Actually, there is evidence for this. Young babies have occasionally been known to engage in masturbation, before they even knew what sex was. If you don't know what sex is, how can you lust?

That's correct, and I'm aware of reports regarding children, pertaining to the act of masturbation. In my posts on this subject, I am always referring to adult Christians. I should have clarified, and I reiterate, there is no supporting evidence that masturbation can be consistently performed without lust, but, as you know, this is not my primary point on this issue.

I believe it is a perversion of sexual intercourse or a deviation from an acceptable act, as I've stated previously.

 

[HumbleSaint]

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 Corinthians 13:11

You are a man now moviefan not a baby, so you should not justify your actions acording to how a baby does things. A baby also poops its dipper, but that is beside the point.

 

[iliveforHim]

True, but one of the Commandments is "Do not steal", and this would definitely be an example of that. My point has been that neither explicit nor implicit condemnation of masturbation is found in the Scriptures; its not even mentioend at all.

As to your own experiences, if you don't believe you can engage in this activity without lust, then that is your choice. I have no issue with stances like that from anyone, but I get irritated when others insist that its a totally-sinful thing to be feared or hated. I think that some Christians believe it not from any Biblical sources, but simply because someone they trusted taught them that way. My mother, for example, caught me in this practice when i was 16, and practically crucified me for it herself (emotionally speaking). I wasn't told why, just that it was wrong...but that only made me think of it as something to be ashamed of, so I hid it from those around me for years, bottling every desire I had because I was afraid of what others might think. In a way, i suppose this eventually served as a catalyst for my now-conquered porn addiction. When a kid is told or shown that sex is somehow "dirty" or shameful, but given no reason, that only makes them feel confused, and they withdraw into sinful habits as a desperate search for comfort. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I finally started resisting lustful tendencies, and trying to use this activity in a God-honoring way. I don't "win the battle" every time, but my "success rate" is steadily increasing.

I believe that following God's word is the best way to live my life. Although the word "masturbation" itself does not appear in the Bible, many places pointedly state that lust is sinful. So the true controversy for me is, can this act be performed without lust? My answer is "no", but again, I don't walk in anyone else's shoes but mine. The initial question was "masturbation, is it really that wrong?" My answer still stands: It is if you're attempting to grow closer to God...I choose not to do it because I feel it involves lust, therefore, my personal choice is to abstain. You state "but I get irritated when others insist that its a totally-sinful thing to be feared or hated", my answer to you is that I fear and hate the idea of disappointing God, and finally, that I believe that what others choose to do with their own bodies is their choice given by God through free will. It is between them and God. So with that said, thank you for your input and thoughts. I'll catch you on the next topic of debate!



God Bless and have a good night!

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I only brought up the infant angle of this situation as evidence that the practice itself is not inherently sinful. I do not base or found my conclusions on it; I simply used it as a reference. The point remains (as I've stated many times), that the actual text of Scripture does not implicity or explicity condemn masturbation, in and of itself. People are free to believe its wrong for them, due to whatever situation they may find themselves in...but to say its absolutely evil regardless of context, you must explain why God wouldn't mention such a "terrible thing" in His Word. I've already explained that it can't be an oversight or a matter dependent on religious training, so what other options can any of you give? So far, all I keep seeing are variations of "I think its because of this", but there's no Scriptural references which expressly condemn it.

 

[Trina]

In reference to the bold text, my reply is "by whose definition?". Desiring others whom you're not married to is clearly lust, but the other's aren't inherently described as such. not all sexual thoughts or feelings are lustful, and I don't think it best to keep condemning people for focusing on themselves and/or God.

I'm not condemning anybody, I am clearly replying to the post. Just as you have replied to the post stating your opinion, I have just as much right to do the same. Sexual feelings outside of marriage, in my definition, appear to be lustful. We obviously all get sexual feelings, but it's what you do with them that determines whether you are doing something wrong. When you get a sexual feeling come over you, and feel as though you need to act on it, then you are giving into your fleshly desires. There are bible verses concerning fleshly desires, such as:

Titus 2:11-13, For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Galatians 5:16-25, So i say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Matthew 16:24-26, Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.

 

[songster]

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 Corinthians 13:11

You are a man now moviefan not a baby, so you should not justify your actions according to how a baby does things. A baby also poops its diaper, but that is beside the point.

When I struggled with pornography and masturbation for more than 20 years, I studied the bible, regardless of how I felt, and this is one scripture that the Lord would bring to my remembrance constantly during my struggle. 1 Corinthians 13:11

Good reminder. Good post. Thanks

 

[Clement]

Dude Moviefan,
You are just searching for a reason to masturbate. So, no matter how many of us try to explain it to u, or bring out hundreds of scriptures, its really not gonna make any diference to u. So, why dont u shut this thread?..

 

[Dismas]

I agree with Clement about Moviefan really seeking a justification so to reconcile the act of Masturbation but let's not play holier-then-thou's here, just because not everybody tries it doesn't mean nobody does, I myself tried to seek such reconciliation, and no there just isn't any. The question in itself is not at all wrong, on the contrary, this is why such thread should stay in fact open!

Please don't be so rash to judge as stating that this wouldn't make any different, It's like there is no possibility for Moviefan or anybody to do something about it where such such thread serves to demonstrate a step to the contrary, have faith!!

 

[greatkraw]

there are some things that people have to work out for themselves whether they feel convicted about it

 

[buckeyegirl700]

Well, i can give you one reason, just for the sake of this discussion. Let's say that a young man or woman in their 20s is not married, and they have no prospects either in that regard. They want to honor God with their lives and bodies, but at the same time they feel these very intense sexual urges on a very frequent basis. Do you personally think that God expects such people to simply "grin and bear it", not knowing when they will be able to fully experience sexual union with a spouse? Sure, they can pray, and ask God for help; I'm all for that. But on a physical, mental, and emotional level, the desire is still there. people can bottle it up, but its only a matter of time before it breaks out. How would that serve as any example of justice from a loving God? If they can find it within themselves, and their relationship with God, to release the physical stress without lusting, how would that be a sin?

Agreed, but that's not the situation I'm talking about.

If they were focusing on another indivdual whom they're not married to, I'd agree...but what's inherently evil about focusing on their own body, or even on the loving God who gave them a sex drive to begin with? I know it sounds strange at times, but can anyone honestly claim its not possible?

Ok, let me get this straight. If I were married and my husband was not available to give me sexual pleasure it is ok for me to masturbate as long as I am thinking about him.

So would someone who has a lot of knoweldge of the bible confirm this please.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

OK, let me get this straight. If I were married, and my husband was not available to give me sexual pleasure, it is OK for me to masturbate as long as I am thinking about him?

It depends on what you mean by "unavailable". If he were somehow physically limited in this regard, I don't see how God would have a problem with it. The important thing to remember is that, like everything else in life, masturbation can also be overdone. If it does not hamper your marriage, or take your utmost focus away from God or your husband, I'd say there's nothing inherently wrong with it. When a person is married, sexual feelings for their spouse aren't considered lust, and as such I doubt that God would have any problems with anyone masturbating for that reason. However, I would advise caution, because being married doesn't automatically mean your mind won't wander to sinful thoughts. The same temptations often affect both married and single people, so you'd still need to keep your heart and mind on track.

This is, in essence, exactly what I've been trying to explain to people - that the sin is not masturbation itself, but the lust which can accompany it. Saying the act itself is wrong because lust is often involved is comparable to blaming a cake for the increasing rate of obesity. Food doesn't make people fat; it's the abuse of it which does. By the same token, masturbation doesn't inherently corrupt a person's mind or heart. Lust most certainly does, but that doesn't automatically rule out the practice of masturbation itself. If an individual honestly feels that he or she can't masturbate without lusting, then it's probably not for them...but if a person claims that they are able to do so in a Godly way, I won't say they're wrong, because the Bible doesn't.

 

[Christianrkchk89]

I've heard the word "Lust" now a billion times in this thread... so i just wanted to throw this out here...

Definitions of lust on the Web:

• lecherousness: a strong sexual desire
• crave: have a craving, appetite, or great desire for
• self-indulgent sexual desire (personified as one of the deadly sins)
• Lust (or lechery) is an inordinate craving for sexual intercourse often to the point of assuming a self-indulgent, and sometimes violent character. Lust, or an immoderate desire for the flesh of another (outside of matrimony), is considered a sin, or impure act, in all of the Abrahamic religions.

So, the way i see it... someone who is masturbating is definitely doing it out of lust. And that's definitely a sin.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I've heard the word "Lust" now a billion times in this thread... so i just wanted to throw this out here...

Definitions of lust on the Web:

• lecherousness: a strong sexual desire
• crave: have a craving, appetite, or great desire for
• self-indulgent sexual desire (personified as one of the deadly sins)
• Lust (or lechery) is an inordinate craving for sexual intercourse often to the point of assuming a self-indulgent, and sometimes violent character. Lust, or an immoderate desire for the flesh of another (outside of matrimony), is considered a sin, or impure act, in all of the Abrahamic religions.

So, the way I see it... someone who is masturbating is definitely doing it out of lust. And that's definitely a sin.

Take another look at that final definition of lust, particularly the part I have placed in bold. That's the distinction right there: "for the flesh of another". The Bible says nothing about focusing on your own body, or even on God. The "self-indulgent" label in a few of the above definitions seems to be used in the sense of "a desire to override the rights of others", which would be applicable in something like rape, or a person who prefers porn to having sex with their spouse. Lust is primarily wrong because it involves treating another individual as a sex object, rather than someone to be loved and cherished selflessly. But with something like masturbation, if you're not focusing on anyone but your own body, or God, how would that be considered "self-indulgent"? You wouldn't be fixating on anyone, so there'd be no "self-centeredness" involved.

 

[PRAIASEmyGOD]

It's a sin, lustfull thoughts i can find a verse if you ask..

 

[Vidy]

Might as well add my thoughts from this (I read the whole thing lol)-

I really think you guys are missing a lot of Movie's points, and when you don't have a reaction to what he's saying, you attack HIM. That is VERY bad in a logical debate such as this ~_o

To the people who said "Try thinking of God while you masturbate. It's not glorifying him, so it's a sin." At first glance, this seems like it would end all discussion. However, think about all of the OTHER "private" things that people often do. Do you glorify God when you take a crap? What about when you're swick and blowing chunks all over the place? When you're having sex with a spouse, is God the first thing that comes to your mind? I think a lot of things would be considered "personal," that God is not against, but because it's not really exposed, it doesn't really glorify him either.

Also, when looking at definitions you have to be VERY careful with that. Example- I was reading Macbeth in English class a few days ago, and there was a little diamond symbol that directed me to the bottom of the page. There were four words that had had an original meaning when Shakespeare wrote it, but now the meanings have changed. Like "friend" meant "to be friendly." I forgot the other 3 words, but the changed in those definitions were more dramatic. Therefore, you have to look at the original Hebrew and translate that those works into a very specific English meaning to get it, since the version of the Bible that most people read today was translated a few hundred years ago.

For all we know, "lust" could've originally meant only that 3rd definition, but over time, it grew to mean any sexual desire, at all ~_o



Before reading this thread, I was up in the air on the entire topic of it, but now, seeing all the cases, I believe it is probably OK. Tbh, "feeling guilty" afterwards means very little to me, because guilt comes from EITHER your conscience OR from disobeying a "societal" boundary. If you've been raised being told it's wrong, then of course you'll feel it's wrong. Does this mean that GOD thinks it's wrong? Not necessarily ~_o

 

[dothackzero]

I've heard the word "Lust" now a billion times in this thread... so i just wanted to throw this out here...

Definitions of lust on the Web:

• lecherousness: a strong sexual desire
• crave: have a craving, appetite, or great desire for
• self-indulgent sexual desire (personified as one of the deadly sins)
• Lust (or lechery) is an inordinate craving for sexual intercourse often to the point of assuming a self-indulgent, and sometimes violent character. Lust, or an immoderate desire for the flesh of another (outside of matrimony), is considered a sin, or impure act, in all of the Abrahamic religions.

So, the way i see it... someone who is masturbating is definitely doing it out of lust. And that's definitely a sin.

Yeah, but is it from our dictionary or from the Greek one where the words of the Bible where written from. Remember over 2000 years words get changed, and have diffrent meaning and stuff.

 

[HumbleSaint]

Yeah, but is it from our dictionary or from the Greek one where the words of the Bible where written from. Remember over 2000 years words get changed, and have diffrent meaning and stuff.

You know even if there was a Scripture verse that said, " Thou shall not masterbate, you would probably still find a way to jusify it. Am I right?

 

[Matthew]

I can't see the logic in this idea that you can masturbate without lust, it is not something that can be deconstructed into seperate elements. Cannot masturbate without being sexually aroused, and arousal is caused by attraction, most often physical and attraction equals desire which equals lust.

I wouldn't call someone a liar if they said they could successfully masturbate without lust, but I am extremely cynical because you cannot override human nature, and while sexual arousal is not dependent on another human being it is always dependent on desire = lust, cannot escape that fact.

The idea of focusing on yourself or God during the act doesn't make much sense to me, that would mean you are being sexually aroused by yourself or God, and that cannot be healthy, but if I've misunderstood please clarify that for me.

The unremovable component of masturbation is sexual arousal, whatever has aroused you is something you desire, this much cannot be denied, so it's hard to say that lust is not always present, regardless of what it is you are lusting after, it could be anything.

All that said I'm not convinced that it is 100% wrong from a biblical viewpoint, so many arguments seem to be what people piece together from different versus none speaking to the topic specifically, but I haven't studied the bible in regards to this topic, I do think there are some things we all do at some point in life, and when we get to the other side we'll get the answer, for now just decide for yourselves, but the 'no lust' argument is reaching in my opinion.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

The idea of focusing on yourself or God during the act doesn't make much sense to me, that would mean you are being sexually aroused by yourself or God, and that cannot be healthy, but if I've misunderstood please clarify that for me.

I'm not saying that people should become sexually aroused by God; what I meant was that instead of focusing on another individual in a sexual way (which would be wrong, unless you're married to them), that people either turn those desires inward by appreciating the body that God gave them, or choosing to focus on a thankful mentality towards Him directly. After all, it's God who made us sexual beings, right? So, with that in mind, what would be inherently sinful about using masturbation as an expression of Godly thankfulness, instead of having all sorts of guilt and shame over it? This practice has long been a "taboo" subject in the church, and honestly I think that's a real problem. For generations (if not longer), parents have taught their children - either implicitly or explicitly - that sex is "filthy", "dirty", or "shameful"...and when a person starts having those desires, they feel terrible because they believe they're betraying their Creator in some way. In my case, these conflicting feelings and thoughts led me into a disastrous porn addiction, from which I am approaching my fourth "freedom anniversary". I still haven't conquered lust completely, and to be honest I doubt it will ever stop altogether until I get to Heaven, but I shudder to think of how bad I'd feel now, if I simply bottled everything up with no hope for any release.

The unremovable component of masturbation is sexual arousal, whatever has aroused you is something you desire, this much cannot be denied, so it's hard to say that lust is not always present, regardless of what it is you are lusting after, it could be anything.

True, but in the context of sin, lust would be best described as "a desire for that which you cannot rightfully have yet". We're not allowed to lustfully crave others before marriage, but our desires still rage inside us, and there's simply no escaping it. Not to be too graphic, but while so-called "wet dreams" may release physical stress, they do nothing for the emotional and mental chaos. Are we as Christians to simply "put up with it", and leave it at that? What about people who never marry; are they doomed to a lifetime of tortured feelings and inner turmoil?

 

[dothackzero]

You know even if there was a Scripture verse that said, " Thou shall not masterbate, you would probably still find a way to jusify it. Am I right?

Actually, if it was that direct then I'd have to have to follow it.

Though, I do stand by my orginal point we are never gonna agree on this this. So let's just all wait till we get to heaven to find out who's right and who's wrong.