Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

[cv5]

Of course the KJV is correct.

Jesus here is denoting step number 8 of the 12 step Hebrew betrothal ceremony. In fact Jesus is proclaiming the future redemption/restoration of Israel here. This is the intended purpose.

This passage concatenates with Joel 2:14-16 among many many others.,...this pattern repeated everywhere in the OT and NT.

With respect to this betrothal pattern, Israel is awaiting RESTORATION, the Church is awaiting CONSUMATION.

Mat 24:36 (NIV etc.)
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[fn] but only the Father.
"Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son."

Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus.
Any outlier addition or subtraction that challenges the full Godhood and Deity of Jesus Christ as Omniscient God will always be an error.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus.

It is the Critical Text (which supports all modern translations including the NASB) which has "nor the Son". The Received Text (which supports the KJB) doe not have this addition. Which comes from corrupt Greek manuscripts generated by Gnostics. Not even the Catholic Douay-Rheims translation has "nor the Son".

 

[cv5]

It is the Critical Text (which supports all modern translations including the NASB) which has "nor the Son". The Received Text (which supports the KJB) doe not have this addition. Which comes from corrupt Greek manuscripts generated by Gnostics. Not even the Catholic Douay-Rheims translation has "nor the Son".

Yes sir.

Interestingly the fact that Jesus does indicate that no one but the Trinity knows the time of the rapture (Jesus the Son certainly knows of course, as He Himself is omniscient God) is entirely relevant. But in terms of the context it's practically incidental. Furthermore designating the Father as the Person Who tells the Son that the abode is finished, and the time has come to snatch the bride.....is a ritual exercise. Which is the point of the passage to begin with.

The fallen Angels, Satan and the holy Angels do not know the hour. No man knows. Which in fact is a crucial aspect of prophecy: the precise moment of taking of the Bride is an absolute secret, and must be to fullfill all end time prophecy. Including the inevitable restoration of the wife of YHVH Israel.

Something to think about: There are two Fathers negotiating the bride price. The Father of the bridegroom and the Father of the bride. The Trinity is negotiating right there. Just like Genesis 15.

 

[Omegatime]

I agree "nor the son" is not in Matthew 24 but was included in Mark 13 was it not?

32 “But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Of course the KJV is correct.

Jesus here is denoting step number 8 of the 12 step Hebrew betrothal ceremony. In fact Jesus is proclaiming the future redemption/restoration of Israel here. This is the intended purpose.

This passage concatenates with Joel 2:14-16 among many many others.,...this pattern repeated everywhere in the OT and NT.

With respect to this betrothal pattern, Israel is awaiting RESTORATION, the Church is awaiting CONSUMATION.

Mat 24:36 (NIV etc.)
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[fn] but only the Father.
"Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son."

Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus.
Any outlier addition or subtraction that challenges the full Godhood and Deity of Jesus Christ as Omniscient God will always be an error.

I've about convinced myself I will be able to determine that date before it comes.About 1290 days before it comes.

We shall see.

 

[cv5]

I've about convinced myself I will be able to determine that date before it comes.About 1290 days before it comes.

We shall see.

The day the rapture is unknowable. The restoration of Israel comes seven years after that.
Really it's a complete package. In fact the day of the Lord begins more or less immediately after the rapture.

In other words the Day of the Lord begins in Revelation chapter 6....not Revelation 19 and subsequent.

Satan is tipped off only because the rapture has already taken place. Then he kicks everything into high gear knowing he has but a short time left.

Really the restoration of Israel is inevitable as soon as the birth pangs begin. Which is why Jesus begins counting at the rapture.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Multiple places show us that the WORD made flesh emptied Himself. This alone explains why He did not have such knowledge.

 

[Slimsumo]

Of course the KJV is correct.

Jesus here is denoting step number 8 of the 12 step Hebrew betrothal ceremony. In fact Jesus is proclaiming the future redemption/restoration of Israel here. This is the intended purpose.

This passage concatenates with Joel 2:14-16 among many many others.,...this pattern repeated everywhere in the OT and NT.

With respect to this betrothal pattern, Israel is awaiting RESTORATION, the Church is awaiting CONSUMATION.

Mat 24:36 (NIV etc.)
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[fn] but only the Father.
"Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son."

Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus.
Any outlier addition or subtraction that challenges the full Godhood and Deity of Jesus Christ as Omniscient God will always be an error.

Wrong, KJV has the nor the son part as well...

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:32

It is the Critical Text (which supports all modern translations including the NASB) which has "nor the Son". The Received Text (which supports the KJB) doe not have this addition. Which comes from corrupt Greek manuscripts generated by Gnostics. Not even the Catholic Douay-Rheims translation has "nor the Son".

Yet the KJV has that in Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[montana123]

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I do not believe these scriptures have anything to do with any betrothal ceremony, but it simply means the saints will not know the day, or hour Jesus comes back to catch the saints that are playing around and not serious about their walk with Christ to be Christlike which Jesus said they will have their portion with the hypocrites, and they will not be with Him.

The Son does not know because the man Christ Jesus the flesh does not know but only the Father.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Like Paul said he has no need to write about the day of the Lord for no person knows the day, or hour, which the saints know it comes as a thief in the night, and Paul does not know.

But he gives us a hint when they shall say Peace and safety then it is close which is when the nations come together to work for peace on earth a one world government which the New Age Christ will be working in the world at that time.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Jesus said it is not for the disciples to know the times, and seasons, which the Father has put in His own power, when they wanted to know when the kingdom would be restored to Israel.

There are some things that God will do that He will not let the saints know the exact timing of it, and the resurrection is one where the saints will not know the day, or hour, and the angels, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, will not know.

I do not believe the saints not knowing the day, or hour of the return of Jesus has anything to do with a betrothal ceremony, but it is simply to catch the people who are hypocritical, and not serious about being Christlike, and the Father will not give the exact timing of everything He does which in this case the purpose is to weed out the people playing around.

 

[cv5]

Wrong, KJV has the nor the son part as well...

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:32



Yet the KJV has that in Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The whole point of the passage is that in terms of the Hebrew wedding RITUAL, the Father in terms of the RITUAL commands the Son to snatch the Bride. This knowledge is "inside the Family" so to speak.

The Trinity does not have data firewalls between one another. This business of Jesus not knowing ANYTHING let alone anything the Father is doing is nonsense IMO. The passage is not meant to convey that message. And no doubt the Hebrew disciples listening understood exactly what Jesus was conveying here......a Jewish wedding procedure. A message of the surety of the rapture (pre-trib) and the restoration of the divorced wife of YHVH (post trib).

Jhn 5:20
For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The day the rapture is unknowable. The restoration of Israel comes seven years after that.
Really it's a complete package. In fact the day of the Lord begins more or less immediately after the rapture.

In other words the Day of the Lord begins in Revelation chapter 6....not Revelation 19 and subsequent.

Satan is tipped off only because the rapture has already taken place. Then he kicks everything into high gear knowing he has but a short time left.

Really the restoration of Israel is inevitable as soon as the birth pangs begin. Which is why Jesus begins counting at the rapture.

Here we go again with that rapture nonsense.
Cant you come up with anything biblical ?

 

[Slimsumo]

The whole point of the passage is that in terms of the Hebrew wedding RITUAL, the Father in terms of the RITUAL commands the Son to snatch the Bride. This knowledge is "inside the Family" so to speak.

The Trinity does not have data firewalls between one another. This business of Jesus not knowing ANYTHING let alone anything the Father is doing is nonsense IMO. The passage is not meant to convey that message. And no doubt the Hebrew disciples listening understood exactly what Jesus was conveying here......a Jewish wedding procedure. A message of the surety of the rapture (pre-trib) and the restoration of the divorced wife of YHVH (post trib).

Jhn 5:20
For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel.

You said: "
"Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son."
Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus. "

Yet the KJV from the 'right manuscripts' also has this same phrase in the gospel of Mark.
So its the same cultists at work.

 

[Omegatime]

I agree that Jesus did not know is utter nonsense. Being God with us He knew everything. the better question is what was Jesus teaching? There are three ages and ministry for our Lord--Father, Son and HS. In this age we are under the direction of the HS when the Lord no longer walks among us, Son --about 3 years, but the age and ministry of the Father is the Old Testament. Israel did not know or understand with exception of the Father. So my 5 cents here is to look in the OT for the answer to guide you thru the NT.

The day of the resurrection and rapture are completely knowable.

I have the Day of the Lord beginning in Rev. 14

 

[cv5]

You said: "
"Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son."
Nor should they. The cults make use this erroneously added text ad nauseum in an attempt to diminish the Godhood of Jesus. "

Yet the KJV from the 'right manuscripts' also has this same phrase in the gospel of Mark.
So its the same cultists at work.

Ok let me state it another way.
What I mean to say that the cults use the addition of "neither the Son" WITH THE INTENT to strip Jesus of His Godhood.

Which is eternally fatal to say and believe.

 

[cv5]

Here we go again with that rapture nonsense.
Cant you come up with anything biblical ?

Not only is the rapture entirely Biblical, it is absolutely CRITICAL in terms of end-time prophecy fulfillment. And in terms of God's fulfillment of Genesis 3:15.

God alone is outside of time. Satan and all of creation is not. Satan does not know the time of the rapture, nor can he.
This is a critical feature of God's plan of salvation. God is holding the ultimate trump card in that He is outside of time, the "I Am", the creator of time.

Jesus entering into our world is described thusly:

Mat 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house (SATAN) had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into (BY JESUS at the rapture).
Mat 12:29
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's (SATAN) house, and spoil his goods, except he (JESUS) first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus will arrive like a thief post resurrection post ascension. An event that initiates the DOTL.

1Th 5:4
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day (the Day of the Lord) should overtake you as a thief.

Paul here links the DOTL to the "coming as a thief for the Bride", the rapture.
The rapture MUST take place for the DOTL (and restitution of Israel) to proceed per prophecy.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The DOTL time-slot (being past the point of the rapture) is always linked with "night" aka judgement. When you are in it, there is no escape.

1Th 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

"Them" is not "us" the Church. The rapture occurs beforehand, and Jesus delivers his Bride FROM the "hour of temptation".

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Furthermore the rapture is obviously and intentionally embedded prophetically in the OT Jewish wedding ceremony.
BUT, was Israel, the wife of YHVH raptured? Ever? Not so you would notice.

No, but the OT Jewish harpazo RITUAL is intended to fulfill the MYSTERY that was revealed the first time (POST-RESURRECTION) to the Apostles: The Bride the Church. The virgin bride of Christ Jesus.

Which altogether demands that we MAKE DISTINCT the stark differentiation between the prophetic destiny of the Church vs Israel:
The virgin Bride gets RAPTURED pre-trib, the divorced wife of YHVH gets RESTORED post-trib.....she must go thru the time of Jacobs trouble beforehand.

So all of this ties into what Jesus is intending to declare in Matt 24 and Mark 13:
His fulfillment of His role in the Jewish wedding ceremony, He is the groom who will come at the moment that the Father commands.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Not only is the rapture entirely Biblical, it is absolutely CRITICAL in terms of end-time prophecy fulfillment. And in terms of God's fulfillment of Genesis 3:15.

God alone is outside of time. Satan and all of creation is not. Satan does not know the time of the rapture, nor can he.
This is a critical feature of God's plan of salvation. God is holding the ultimate trump card in that He is outside of time, the "I Am", the creator of time.

Jesus entering into our world is described thusly:

Mat 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house (SATAN) had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into (BY JESUS at the rapture).
Mat 12:29
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's (SATAN) house, and spoil his goods, except he (JESUS) first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus will arrive like a thief post resurrection post ascension. An event that initiates the DOTL.

1Th 5:4
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day (the Day of the Lord) should overtake you as a thief.

Paul here links the DOTL to the "coming as a thief for the Bride", the rapture.
The rapture MUST take place for the DOTL (and restitution of Israel) to proceed per prophecy.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The DOTL time-slot (being past the point of the rapture) is always linked with "night" aka judgement. When you are in it, there is no escape.

1Th 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

"Them" is not "us" the Church. The rapture occurs beforehand, and Jesus delivers his Bride FROM the "hour of temptation".

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Furthermore the rapture is obviously and intentionally embedded prophetically in the OT Jewish wedding ceremony.
BUT, was Israel, the wife of YHVH raptured? Ever? Not so you would notice.

No, but the OT Jewish harpazo RITUAL is intended to fulfill the MYSTERY that was revealed the first time (POST-RESURRECTION) to the Apostles: The Bride the Church. The virgin bride of Christ Jesus.

Which altogether demands that we MAKE DISTINCT the stark differentiation between the prophetic destiny of the Church vs Israel:
The virgin Bride gets RAPTURED pre-trib, the divorced wife of YHVH gets RESTORED post-trib.....she must go thru the time of Jacobs trouble beforehand.

So all of this ties into what Jesus is intending to declare in Matt 24 and Mark 13:
His fulfillment of His role in the Jewish wedding ceremony, He is the groom who will come at the moment that the Father commands.

You can quote for centuries from the bible but you can't quote a single word(rapture).

Rapture=not the word of God.

 

[cv5]

Rapture=not the word of God.

Harpazo is. The "snatch". Aka the rapture in todays English parlance.
Oh yea.....OT Enoch was "translated". Elijah was for all intents and purposes "caught up".

Don't forget about Paul. Being "harpazo-ed" is not by any means an unknown phenomenon biblically.

2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.

2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Furthermore, the OT is filled to the brim with Jewish grooms building additions to the fathers houses, midnight cries, and grooms snatching brides. It was part of daily life back then.

Just to let you know, in terms of the Jewish wedding ritual, it is the virgin bridesmaids who were assigned to inform the entire villiage that the bridegroom had come, the snatch had happened. Then, AFTER A 7 DAY CONSUMMATION OF THE BETROTHAL at the fathers house, the "wedding feast" took place......a long drawn out affair.

Sound familiar?

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:6
And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage (SUPPER!): and the door was shut.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Harpazo is. The "snatch". Aka the rapture in todays English parlance.
Oh yea.....OT Enoch was "translated". Elijah was for all intents and purposes "caught up".

Don't forget about Paul. Being "harpazo-ed" is not by any means an unknown phenomenon biblically.

2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.

2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Furthermore, the OT is filled to the brim with Jewish grooms building additions to the fathers houses, midnight cries, and grooms snatching brides. It was part of daily life back then.

Just to let you know, in terms of the Jewish wedding ritual, it is the virgin bridesmaids who were assigned to inform the entire villiage that the bridegroom had come, the snatch had happened. Then, AFTER A 7 DAY CONSUMMATION OF THE BETROTHAL at the fathers house, the "wedding feast" took place......a long drawn out affair.

Sound familiar?

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:6
And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage (SUPPER!): and the door was shut.

You have not quoted the word you say is biblical from the Bible yet.

Were you planning on quoting the word (rapture) from the bible or not?


Or can you admit the truth that the word rapture is not found in the word of God?

Can you admit the truth?
Are you able?

 

[cv5]

You have not quoted the word you say is biblical from the Bible yet.

Were you planning on quoting the word (rapture) from the bible or not?


Or can you admit the truth that the word rapture is not found in the word of God?

Can you admit the truth?
Are you able?

The truth is right here buddy.
Harpazo. The "snatching OUT".

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g726/kjv/tr/0-1/

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away

OUT of this situation:
Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Fortunately we are not of this world, and will not be dwelling upon the earth at his point in prophetic history. This "snatching out" is known as our "blessed hope".

Tit 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[vassal]

I agree that Jesus did not know is utter nonsense. Being God with us He knew everything. the better question is what was Jesus teaching? There are three ages and ministry for our Lord--Father, Son and HS. In this age we are under the direction of the HS when the Lord no longer walks among us, Son --about 3 years, but the age and ministry of the Father is the Old Testament. Israel did not know or understand with exception of the Father. So my 5 cents here is to look in the OT for the answer to guide you thru the NT.

The day of the resurrection and rapture are completely knowable.

I have the Day of the Lord beginning in Rev. 14

that would be soon I think in the next 2 or 3 years it probably corresponds to a feast?