Matt 18:9 Was Jesus being literal with this statement?

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SaysWhat

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Jan 17, 2024
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#21
Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.
No it wasn't literal for the other eye can see as well.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#22
PaulThomson said:
Abraham circumcised himself. Why do you think a person cannot circumcise his own heart?

Jeremiah 4:4 KJV — Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Your text does not say God circumcised your heart. God tells the Israelites to circumcise their own hearts. You seem at odds with God here.
i asked who can circumcise their own heart?

you rebuffed and now accuse me of sin for quoting scripture.

you seem to be at odds with Proverbs 20:9, which was my exact expression in asking this question.
 

posthuman

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#23
No it wasn't literal for the other eye can see as well.
when my Husband says if thine eye is evil thy whole body shall be full of darkness, He says eye, singular.

a pair of eyes divided against themselves cannot stand ;)

it is literal. and it is also speaking of greater things than literal eyeballs and literal plucking.
 

SaysWhat

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#24
when Christ says if thine eye is evil thy whole body is full of darkness, He says eye, singular.

it is literal. and it is also speaking of greater things than literal eyeballs and literal plucking.
Yes, so losing one and still having another won't stop someone from sinning.
 

SaysWhat

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#25
A foot, a hand and a eye, is quite a lot of mutilating to get rid of sin who could literally do such a thing? More like the old man side.
 

posthuman

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#26
Yes, so losing one and still having another won't stop someone from sinning.
i think you missed,
why is "eye" in Matthew 6:23 singular, not plural 'eyes'...?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#27
I think I have touched on a powerful interpretation of Matthew 18:9. Jesus uses hyperbolic language to emphasize the seriousness of sin and its consequences. The metaphor of plucking out an eye underscores the lengths to which one should go to address sin, illustrating the urgency of spiritual self-examination and accountability.

The concept of hell in biblical teachings serves as a stark reminder of the consequences of unrepentant sin. This awareness can indeed inspire a healthy fear, prompting individuals to confront their shortcomings and seek redemption.

Ultimately, the message encourages believers to prioritize their spiritual well-being and make choices that align with their faith. It’s a call to action, urging people to take sin seriously and pursue a life that reflects their commitment to Christ.
 

SaysWhat

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Jan 17, 2024
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#28
i think you missed,
why is "eye" in Matthew 6:23 singular, not plural 'eyes'...?
Why isn't both meationed?.

The old man has a foot, hand and a eye, cut it off. Though it may not be as easy as it may seem.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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Oregon
#29
.
A poll taken in Hell with the question below might yield some surprising
results.

Q: If amputating both your hands, gouging out both your eyes, puncturing
both your eardrums, cutting out your tongue, removing your genitals,
horribly disfiguring your face, rendering you a quadriplegic ted to a wheel
chair and a respirator would've prevented your ending up where you are
now; would you have been willing to submit to all that?

Well; I strongly suspect that the majority would answer NO because they
would've first had to believe Hell is a real place, and they also would've had
to be deathly afraid of ending up there.

Another poll I'd take would be this question:

Q: Were you at all afraid of Hell before you came here?

Again; I strongly suspect the majority would answer NO, they weren't afraid.
in point of fact, I suspect quite a few expected to go there. In other words:
there are folks down below who decided early-on to live life on their own
terms and not let religion get in their way. They knew the consequences of
such a decision, but at the time felt the trade-off was worth it.

I sympathize with their pragmatic way of thinking because God has set the
bar too high.

"All fall short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23)

The glory of God is sinless perfection. Well just imagine the disappointment
some down below are feeling after having given up every pleasure to
achieve sinless perfection only to fail and end up in Hell anyway. In the end
they're worse off than the pragmatic folk who lived life on their own terms
and didn't let religion get in their way. Ouch! That's bitter.
_
 
Sep 15, 2019
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#30
i asked who can circumcise their own heart?

you rebuffed and now accuse me of sin for quoting scripture.

you seem to be at odds with Proverbs 20:9, which was my exact expression in asking this question.
Isn't circumcision of the heart the softening of one's heart toward God (or the removal of the hard-heartedness?) The scripture talks about two parties being involved in this. I don't know the hardness of our hearts can be fully removed by ourselves, but as we ask God, I believe He grants us grace.

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deut 30:6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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#31
i asked who can circumcise their own heart?

you rebuffed and now accuse me of sin for quoting scripture.

you seem to be at odds with Proverbs 20:9, which was my exact expression in asking this question.
Jeremiah 4:4 KJV — Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Your scripture did not say who circumcises a person's heart. My scripture says we are to do it.

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#32
Jeremiah 4:4 KJV — Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Your scripture did not say who circumcises a person's heart. My scripture says we are to do it.

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Proverbs 20:9​
Who can say,
"I have made my heart clean,
I am pure from my sin"?
apparently you are the answer to the problem even Solomon wasn't wise enough to solve, and you are so amazing you find it merely trivial

bravo, superman.
your willpower and brilliant decision-making has saved you; go in peace.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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#33
Proverbs 20:9​
Who can say,
"I have made my heart clean,
I am pure from my sin"?
apparently you are the answer to the problem even Solomon wasn't wise enough to solve, and you are so amazing you find it merely trivial

bravo, superman.
your willpower and brilliant decision-making has saved you; go in peace.
Why do you assume that circumcision means cleaning from corruption. Physical circumcision does not mean cleaning. It is a sign of our separation to God


Romans 4:11-12

English Standard Version

11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.


1 Peter 3:21

English Standard Version

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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#35
It does help to reduce infections and is easier hygiene.
Circumcision was not about cleansing. It was about a commitment to love and serve God, like the piercing of the slave's ear was about commitment to love and serve the master.
 
Sep 15, 2019
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#36
Circumcision was not about cleansing. It was about a commitment to love and serve God, like the piercing of the slave's ear was about commitment to love and serve the master.
I think uncircumcision is more associated with sinfulness and shame than uncleanness, but that uncleanness, sinfulness and shame are often talked about together, the association is understandable.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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#37
I think uncircumcision is more associated with sinfulness and shame than uncleanness, but that uncleanness, sinfulness and shame are often talked about together, the association is understandable.
Or maybe physical uncircumcision was about uncommitment, distrust, and hiding the source of one's "seed" .

The physical foreskin hides a part of the man that in righteousness only his spouse would normally see, the part out of which his physical "seeds" happen to come.
Our dissimulating masks hide the part of us, our heart, out of which our spiritual "seeds" happen to come. Circumcision lays bare that source. Circumcision is about a covenant of honesty/truthfulness regarding our motives (seeds) for our actions and words (fruit). Uncleanness and sinfulness and shame are not taken away by circumcision. Circumcision is a sign that we believe they have been already taken away (by God's grace), and we can trust in that grace so that there is no need to hide our heart from God any more.
 

SaysWhat

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Jan 17, 2024
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#38
Circumcision was not about cleansing. It was about a commitment to love and serve God, like the piercing of the slave's ear was about commitment to love and serve the master.
Yes it was, and my statement was to discredit that.
 

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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#40
Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.
You know reading that verse scared me to death! <---thats what its like. Back then it was just a saying..

Thinking about it Really? Is that something anyone can do and back then just survive? We would know who sinned for sure and also who loves Him.. ouch lol