Matt. 28:19...Who?

[Nessuno]

I repeat: the Great Commission is about much more than just baptising believers!

No need to repeat, I understood you the first time. What I will address is specific to the OP. Getting to late tonight for that.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is interesting to me, that vv.19-20 is preceded by 'therefore' - implying that this 'comission' follows logically as a direct consequence of what He says in v. 18

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

"therefore.."

Thoughts about this?

That's an astute observation and has tremendous significance. It means that the absolute and unlimited authority of the Lord God Almighty is behind this command. Which means that Christians do not have to ask any government's permission to preach the Gospel or establish churches, neither do they have to be timid about what they are proclaiming, but be bold (as were the apostles). Indeed, when the Gospel is preached, sinners must be told that having heard it, they are COMMANDED by God to repent and believe.

That would result in an entirely different quality to Gospel preaching. But the corollary is that the evangelists, preachers, and even ordinary believers must be filled with the Holy Spirit as indicated in Acts 1:8: But ye shall receive power (Gk dunamis), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

At the same time Christians have to be ready for intense persecution when this happens, as was evident when the apostles were persecuted and even martyred.

What we frequently have today is ear-tickling preachers who will deliberately avoid the words "Hell" and "repent" and "be converted" to please their listeners.

It should be noted that while the word translated as "power" in Mt 28:18 is the Greek word exousia (authority), the word "power" in Acts 1:8 is dunamis (supernatural strength) to preach the Gospel. IOW God has absolute authority and He gives Divine strength to Christians to preach the Gospel.

What those who claim that regeneration precedes faith fail to believe is (a) the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe and (b) God the Holy Spirit is always present to render the Gospel (called the Word of God) effective in the hearts and minds of sinners. IOW sinners who are dead in their trespasses and sins can still believe the Gospel under its own power and then be regenerated after they obey the Gospel. That is the biblical order of salvation.

 

[mcubed]

The Word of G-d was written for its audience in its time but it is alive and sharper than a two-edged sword so it transcend all time and apply today. So G-d NEVER STOPS SPEAKING OUT LOUD IN HIS WORD!!!! It is for those who have ears, so let them hear!! Sadly no denomination has ALL SAVED PEOPLE, but ALL WHO ARE SAVED EVEN IN EVERY DENOMINATION NEED TO HEAR!!!! AND OBEY!!!!!

 

[2tellthetruth]

While this command was given directly to the apostles, it's continuing mandate is for the ministry in every generation. By "ministry" i mean those that are called and ordained by God and recognized by the local Pastor as ministers of the gospel. I clarify that because nowadays, everybody has a "ministry." (Music ministry, coffee ministry, any other ministry they want to declare that you don't find in the bible!)

Only ordained ministers should be baptizing people. This command was given to the leaders of the church and that is to whom it remains.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Only ordained ministers should be baptizing people.

This is debatable. Ananias was just an ordinary Christian who was sent by Christ to baptize the apostle Paul.

 

[2tellthetruth]

This is debatable. Ananias was just an ordinary Christian who was sent by Christ to baptize the apostle Paul.

While I understand your point, you cannot prove biblically that Ananias was not an ordained minister. Neither can I prove biblically that he was. What I can point to is the rest of scripture where that in every other instance when someone was baptized, it was by an ordained minister. That leads me to believe that Ananias was as well.

 

[Nehemiah6]

While I understand your point, you cannot prove biblically that Ananias was not an ordained minister.

Yes I can. The Bible clearly identifies him as simply A CERTAIN DISCIPLE. Had he been anything else, the writer would have certainly indicated that.

Also, during the Lord's earthly ministry,while the apostles were still only disciples, they were baptizing believers.

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)... (John 4:1,2)

 

[MarcR]

It was to the disciples. That's who Jesus was addressing. .. but it has further application to other churches throughout all ages.

Applying it to Christians not in churches would not fit with the commission to baptise which is a church ordinance

Lets look at it in context:

Matt 28:16-20
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


In verse 18, Jesus was clearly addressing the disciples in His presence.


and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

The disciples in Jesus' presence did not live until the end of the world, nor did Jesus expect that they would. Therefore we can correctly understand that verses 19 and 20 are addressed to all followers of Jesus in all times and places until His return.


Applying it to Christians not in churches would not fit with the commission to baptise which is a church ordinance

It is a church ordinance in some denominations but there is no scripture that forbids laymen from baptizing.

I see no harm in delegating the role to ordained pastors and elders but there is NO SCRIPTURAL MANDATE to do so!

 

[MattG]

The 1st century disciples to whom he actually spoke the words to

 

[gotime]

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus was speaking to the disciples as seen here:

Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Their instruction was to "teach "ALL" nations".

Teaching them what?

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

To observe all things Jesus commanded them. Would this include the instruction currently being given? If so then this instruction is to all people of the earth. But only those who believe as it is written:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

There is much more that could be said but there is a little.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The 1st century disciples to whom he actually spoke the words to

If that was all there was to it, then the Christian Church would be non-existent today.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Who was given this direction/assignment/responsibility?

Note that all apostles are present. Therefore, this commandment is for all of us. After all,

• "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2.20).