Matt24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

BOY · Oct 13, 2024

Matt24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

It's not talking about the Antichrist, the man of sin, the beast, because he will only have one rule

Rev13:15--, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

So who's his it talking about, who shall deliver us up to be afflicted, and kill us, and why shall we be hated by all nations.

I'm thinking some established church the Pharisees? I'm thinking?. This is the beginning of sorrow not the Great Tribulation

Has anybody out there got an opinion.

If I'm reading this right some established church is going to be still working and operating right until the man of sin sits in the temple, right until the last 42 months.

Has anybody out there got an opinion.?

A helpful and encouraging opinion would be nice.

homwardbound · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

It will all turn out to get done, not as another one thinks it will, not necessarily
look back at Christ's day here on earth in the only perfect flesh and blood, born of woman ever. Genesis 3:15-16 fulfilled.
Then he went and healed, spoke truth and upset the religious ones, there then, the Pharisees. Jesus took their spot in the leading of them over the people then.
So, they got the thought to get rid of him. "Job security" is what I call it. So they planned to get rid of Jesus. The enemy satan behind this to make happen, was losing control over the people.
So, it came to happen and many did not believe Jesus as the Messiah, the way, the truth and the new life for us the people to be given us, without works to get it. Yet it has been being done that way, ever since Jesus was risen back to life New Life given, not earned given, yet man continues to earn it according to their thought(s).
Not seeing Jesus as risen or what has gotten done free of charge either, read Col 1 and 2 to get a clue please

They did not know or understand what they were doing and no one understood, then
Jesus went willingly to die once for us all. Until the resurrection of Jesus, seen by the Disciples and over 500 other witnesses.
seeing now why Jesus yelled "Forgive them Father" for they know not what they do. Then yelled "It is finished"
What was/ is finished?
Is the Law Finished? No!, rather fulfilled for us to be made new in the risen Son for us to love as are loved in mercy and truth for everyone, done at that cross once for all to either believe it or not
The reality is playing out
God won in Son, proof is in risen Son (Jesus) never to die ever again for any more sin ever. Time to enter his courts with thanksgiving and praise, all sin now taken out of the way as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12) Everything but "Unbelief" to God Father in all this. As it all started at "Unbelief" in Adam eating from the tree that brought death to all. Time to turn to God Father and believe God seriously does love you too sincerely. For it is the love that changes us, me at least, thank you

DavyP · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

For Bible prophecy specific to the very end of this world just prior to Christ's future return, brethren should be studying Christ's Olive discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, along with the Seals of Revelation 6. Jesus covered seven main SIGNS of the end leading up to His future return within those Chapters. But to further cement understanding about the end, there are many other New Testament Scriptures that go with those SIGNS of the end, especially further in Revelation.

In Rev.16, on the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus is still... warning His Church that He comes "as a thief", meaning He still has not gathering His Church at that point of the 6th Vial. Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 confirms that His coming to gather His faithful Church will be after... the tribulation.

Per Revelation 11, about God's "two witnesses" prophesying for 1260 days, that represents the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" of 7 years. (two 1260 day periods). They will prophesy during the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period which represents the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world.

Within that prophecy it mentions they are the "two candlesticks". Per the end of Rev.1:20, Jesus said the "seven candlesticks are the seven churches". That means the "two candlesticks" represent two Churches at the end that will prophesy against the beast along with God's "two witnesses". If you look at Jesus' Messages to the seven Churches in Asia, you'll discover that He had no rebuke for only two Churches. They represent His elect, and the delivering up of Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that you read is about those for the end, and just before (in the "beginning of sorrows" time just prior to the "abomination of desolation" being setup in Jerusalem).

The placing of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem is what officially will kick off the "great tribulation" time. It is when the beast king ("another beast" of Rev.13:11) will demand that all bow in worship to it or be killed. By then old covenant sacrifices and old covenant worship by the unbelieving Jews will have already been re-established. It means the false-Messiah who comes to Jerusalem first will have already established old covenant worship with a temple in order to end sacrifices later and setup the "abomination of desolation" idol in the temple instead.

So yeah, Christ's Church will still be here on earth through all that, just as God's Word reveals.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

The phrase in Matt24:8 "ALL THESE are the beginning of sorrows / birth PANGS" speaks of what verses 4-8 had just talked about (which INCLUDES the "singular Antichrist" individual: "Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--corresponding with "SEAL #1" the rider on the wht horse WITH A "BOW"--"bow" often meaning "DECEPTION"... and corresponding with both 2Th2:9a "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" [man of sin]" and Dan11:36... as well as Dan9:27a[,26b]... ALL at the START of the "7 year period").

So, yes, while there is a SINGULAR individual (who will be "the Antichrist" / man of sin), it doesn't mean that others won't be joining his team, so to speak.

[for the readers: EVERYTHING from Matt24:4 onward takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture"; Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, was not covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," but of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age) and the specific, future, LIMITED time-period that will immediately precede and LEAD UP to THAT, i.e. the TRIB]

cv5 · Oct 13, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

Agreed. Using the correct answering formula:
first question second, second question third, and third question first, this is indeed an AC tribulation reference.

Mat 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
1) when shall these things be?
2) and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
3) and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man G5100 deceive you.

"So, yes, while there is a SINGULAR individual (who will be "the Antichrist" / man of sin), it doesn't mean that others won't be joining his team, so to speak."

And those would be these (probably Jews) who are the false prophets of the AC:

Mat 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

And these vassals of the AC are trying to prevent this (see and flee), aiding and abetting the AC in his gambit to slaughter the Jews:

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Blade · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

Hi.. you know for me Matt 24 Jesus was talking to His people Israel who were at the moment still under the law. There was no Church no Christian. For me as I understand the Church has all power all authority over the enemy who is Satan and ever demon every fallen angel. Not one of them can stand against the Church. Just one believer has the king of kings lord of lords within and the sweet holy Spirit. So for me unless something is taken out of the way, then and only then can the lawless one come out in the open and then do lying wonders that the world will believe only a GOD can do.

For me as long as we are here we will never see the lawless one. I don't know why we pick and choose what to believe. I can give you a verse that you do not read it here yet Christ said it which was really GOD talking. At the start the 12 came back rejoicing that even the demon are subject unto them granted Christ told them rejoice your names are written in heaven. That has not change since its Christ with in. Again He gave us the power/authority over all of the enemy and nothing means nothing shall by any means hurt you. The only way the enemy has any kind of power over a believer is if that believer allowed it which can come by doubt.

I think were passed the beginning of sorrows. Haha.. my personal view belief is not going to change anything. So still here. You notice when John asked are you the one? We all would have just said yes but no Christ "“Go and tell John about everything you have seen and heard: the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOOD NEWS (gospel) PREACHED TO THEM." This is still going on today. What each one of us personally believes is not the way its going to happen. So be it one more day or another 30+ years.

ForestGreenCook · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

If you go back to verse 3, "the world" according to Strongs concordance means "an age" "also past".

Those that shall endure the afflictions to the end of that age, shall be saved=delivered, as they sojourn here on earth for those that God gave to is Son had already been delivered on the cross, and have the promise of an inheritance of eternal

The preaching of the gospel in that age has been preached into all the earth and to the ends of that age (Romans 10:18)

The "he" is God that delivers us up to be afflicted. Many are the afflictions of the righteous (Psalms 34:19).

I pray this helps, if not, please ask more questions.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 13, 2024

BOY said:

There are three contemporaries yo this sermon by Jesus he’s telling them about the destruction of Jerusalem that happened about thirty years or so later that Daniel had foretold

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:15-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have another witness of Jesus sermons here in the gospel according to mark

“And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains: and let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: and let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:1-2, 9, 11-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in Luke’s account it really helps us understand what he’s talking about when we put them all together

“And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

…. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( like daniels foretold desolation and destruction of Jerusalem )

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:5-6, 9-24‬ ‭

These things were about Jerusalem and the temples destruction and the people of that generation

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ( Jesus was killed for thee people ) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ( jersualem and its temples destruction by rome in 70 ad thirty years of so after Jesus warned them all ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Part of what he’s saying is about then to those people and then some of the signs he tells of are for us in the latter covenant waiting for the end of the world

they ask him “ what are the signs of Jerusalem and the temples destruction? And also they ask “ and what are the signs of thy coming at the end of the world ?”

if you look closely Jesus is telling of two time periods one that was immediate for then regarding Jerusalems destruction and the end of thier covenant and then he’s also foretelling his return at the end of the world

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 13, 2024

ForestGreenCook said:

Just to note: the Greek word in Matt24:3 (end [singular] of the AGE) is not the same Greek word used in Romans 10:18 (ENDS of g3625
οἰκουμένης οἰκουμένη oikoumenē )

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 13, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

The Luke context (vv.12-24a,b--where you've BOLDED the text ^ ) indeed speaks of the events surrounding "70ad"... and v.12 is saying "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL the beginning of birth PANGS (vv.8-11)...]" the 70ad events must play out (first--"BEFORE" the BoBPs!).

That's the SEQUENCE there (in Lk21).

However, in Matthew 24, verses 4-8 START OUT WITH [what takes place SEQUENTIALLY-AFTER the 70ad events] "the beginning of birth PANGS" and then progresses onward from there...

(vv.15,21 commences the SECOND HALF OF the "7 year period [/TRIB]"... vv.29-31 refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age).

IOW, Lk21:12 informs us of the proper SEQUENCE, with it's specific wording of "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE..."

...whereas Matt24:4-8's "BoBPs" are the first thing mentioned, and then goes on to tell what COMES AFTER THOSE, see.

Distinct!

Pilgrimshope · Oct 14, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

The Luke context (vv.12-24a,b--where you've BOLDED the text ^ ) indeed speaks of the events surrounding "70ad"... and v.12 is saying "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL the beginning of birth PANGS (vv.8-11)...]" the 70ad events must play out (first--"BEFORE" the BoBPs!).

That's the SEQUENCE there (in Lk21).

However, in Matthew 24, verses 4-8 START OUT WITH [what takes place SEQUENTIALLY-AFTER the 70ad events] "the beginning of birth PANGS" and then progresses onward from there...

(vv.15,21 commences the SECOND HALF OF the "7 year period [/TRIB]"... vv.29-31 refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age).

IOW, Lk21:12 informs us of the proper SEQUENCE, with it's specific wording of "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE..."

...whereas Matt24:4-8's "BoBPs" are the first thing mentioned, and then goes on to tell what COMES AFTER THOSE, see.

Distinct!

I can’t understand what your saying sorry

ForestGreenCook · Oct 14, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

Even so, it states that their sound "went" (past tense) into all the earth. It does not say their sound "will go".

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Matt24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

BOY

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homwardbound

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DavyP

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TheDivineWatermark

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cv5

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Blade

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ForestGreenCook

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