Matthew 18:9?

Embankment · Jun 29, 2020

And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

I continue to struggle with this statement from a Jesus. I would like to hear your insights on how to understand the meaning of this passage. Thanks!

Magenta · Jul 2, 2020

God takes sin seriously enough to sacrifice His only begotten Son to destroy it. Many believe Jesus is employing hyperbolic language to convey the idea that whatever is causing you to sin, it is worth taking drastic measures to get that thing out of your life. Hyperbole is not meant to be taken literally.

Mem · Jul 2, 2020

This is earlier exampled in Matthew 5:29 within the context of a parallel of the beatitudes which illustrate the meek's (humble and lowly; strength under control [rather than weak] ) inheritance of the earth and 'anyone who looks [to lust]. It is, basically, an admonishment to humble ourselves (as becoming a little child) should we notice even so much as as one haughty, self servant hair raising up within our body....or use it to fulfill our flesh's ungodly appetite and perish. This could be reformulated as saying, 'abusing yourself, as awful as that is obviously, is better than abusing another.' Yes? I think so.

Corban · Jul 2, 2020

Embankment said:

When God made man He gave man two duties.

The man was to be in the image and likeness of God to display God
The man was to subdue and then rule the earth and its environs of sea and sky (Gen.1:26.28)

To achieve this, man was set in front of the Tree of Life and commanded to eat. When you eat something, the system begins a process whereby the food becomes organically one with the man. After a few hours, if we had to cut the man open, we will not find the food. The food has become one with the man. In this case, the man has become partaker of the nature of the food. And if he eats from a divine Tree, he becomes "partaker of the divine nature" (2nd Pet.1:4). The man, now possessing God's nature, or God's LIFE, thinks, decides and has the same emotions as God. This is because God's LIFE is in him. So, when a man with God's LIFE in him RULES the earth, he will rule in accordance with this lIFE. He will be a just, righteous, generous, fair, protective and Christ-like king.

Christ will return one day to set up His KINGDOM on earth. The King of this Kingdom will be Jesus. But God's plan was "let us make MAN (plural) and let THEM (plural) have dominion ... " So God prepares a New Birth for those who would aspire to this Kingdom (Jn.3:3-5). And then, after their lives, Jesus sets up a judgment seat to decide who are qualified to reign (Lk.19:17.19). These me who are adjudged fit, or "worthy" to reign with Christ, have Christ's LIFE, so the Kingdom of Christ will be run according to this INNER LIFE of Christ. That is the meaning of "ENTERING LIFE". It is not HAVING this LIFE, for that is attained by FAITH (Jn.3:15-16), but it is the matter of ENTERING a Kingdom RULED by men who have this LIFE. This is seen in Matthew 18:3-9. The CONTEXT is the "KINGDOM".

3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
...
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

It is at once clear that "ENTERING" the Kingdom is the same as "ENTERING LIFE". And it is also just as clear that while the Rebirth is by FAITH, ENTERING the Kingdom is by NOT OFFENDING. That is, WORKS. A Christian must be born again to be HEIR of this Kingdom. But he will only ENTER the Kingdom by his WORKS after conversion. So ...
1st Corinthians 6:9 says; "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"

Galatians 5:21 says; "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 5:5 says; "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

A man HAS eternal LIFE by FAITH
A man ENTERS LIFE by his WORKS

See also the Parables of the Wedding Feast, Talents, Virgins and Pounds. They all start with "the KINGDOM IS LIKE ... "

oyster67 · Jul 2, 2020

Embankment said:

It means that Hell is really, really bad. People who would never think about blinding themselves temporarily in this life are willing to be blinded in the Spiritual. The Spiritual is forever and ever. Hell is real, literal, and forever.

Jesus does not want you to blind yourself either way. That is the simple and straightforward meaning of this verse.

Mark
9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Magenta · Jul 2, 2020

Corban said:

Hello Corban. I have been very much appreciating your contributions to the forums since you joined three weeks ago, today!

Genesis 2:15-17
And the Lord God took the man, and put him into
the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying,
Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Man was placed in the garden and not so such commanded to eat of the Tree of Life so much as he was given permission to eat freely of any of the trees in the garden but for one. For that one, he was commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

Guojing · Jul 2, 2020

Embankment said:

It is linked to the many healing miracles that Jesus was doing in the 4 gospels.

When Jesus was walking on Earth, he had the sign gift of healing. He could heal all who came to him (Acts 10:38) He used this sign gift to testify to doubting John the Baptist that he was indeed their promised Messiah (Luke 7:22)

When Jesus was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews, in order for the Jews to be saved, they had to believe in him as their promised Messiah AND keep the law (Matt 5:19-20)

So his main point to the Jews in that teaching then was this, "If having 2 eyes means you have to break some part of the law, such as the law against looking at a woman in lust as I have explained, its better for you to cut one off and just make it into the Kingdom by the skin of your teeth. Once you made it, I as your promised King can easily restore both your eyes once again."

But its not applicable for us now, because we are not under the gospel of the kingdom. Ours is based on 1 Cor 15:1-4. works of the law is not required for that gospel, nor does anyone have the same sign gift of healing, healing is no longer guaranteed to happen.

Duskey · Jul 2, 2020

It means pick up your cross and follow Jesus.

Adstar · Jul 2, 2020

Embankment said:

Jesus during his speech on the mount made it clear to the listeners that the level of sinless performance was even higher then the pharisees had been preaching to them.. Jesus made the seriousness of the sin so acute that he said it would be better to be blind then sin with your eyes..

Of course most people who walked away from His sermon would have been devastated wondering how they could possibly even gt anywhere near to the level of standards Jesus had preached.. Jesus preached the Law of God to it's utmost level of truth and purity.. By His preaching He confirmed to all honest people listening then and all who read His sermon today that they have absolutely no hope of ever living up to the standards of God and that they need someone to pay the price for their sins and save them from the lake of fire..

Of course Jesus revealed the insurmountable problem that human beings had and then gave the gospel Way of salvation. The solution to our unsolvable human problem..

cuz · Jul 2, 2020

The eye perceives the surroundings and causes a perception
If the perception is in darkness causing you to stumble
Cast The darkness out
It would be better to be taken advantage of than to take advantage of others
Taking advantage of others will cause hell's 🔥 fire

1 cor 6:7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters.

Corban · Jul 3, 2020

Magenta said:

We are in agreement. The wording is as you posted. I just zeroed in on one Tree for the sake of the thread. You're right, man was "commanded" to eat from every Tree save one.

By the way, have you ever considered that eating is a central theme of the Bible and that God's plan is centered around it.

Adam was to eat of every Tree. This would have nourished him both physically, psychologically and spiritually
Noah, a vegetarian up till he came out of the Ark, was commanded to eat animals in preparation for man eating the Passover
Israel must eat the Passover, not only kill it
Israel must eat angel's food - Manna
Moses survives 40 days and nights with even water by dealing with God's words in Exodus 34:28
Man must eat Christ to have eternal life (of course, as in John 6:63, it is a spiritual meal)
Man must eat the symbols of Christ's death
The Overcomers of the Church are rewarded by a special eating (Rev.2:17, 3:20)
Our future in eternity is eating (Rev.22:2, 14)

posthuman · Jul 3, 2020

Embankment said:

it's pretty simply -- whatever causes us to sin, no matter how dear it may be to us, we should get rid of.

we might ask tho - because Christ does say "if" - is it really our eyes that cause us to sin?
i don't think it is -- say i'm a kleptomaniac and i keep stealing things from some store. is that my feet's fault, that carry me to the store? is it my hands fault, that grab items? now - cutting off either my hands or my feet could prevent me from carrying on. but my thieving isn't 'caused' by either, even tho removing either could keep me from it. my thieving comes from my covetousness and lusts, and those don't originate in my hands or feet; my covetousness & my lust come from my heart and my mind.

how shall i cut off my heart and my mind then?
even as Duskey said:

Duskey said:

being buried with Christ, He has said, He will take away our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh - He will renew our minds by His Spirit. so that having died with Him, we may also live with Him.

we ought to take whatever steps are necessary to keep ourselves from stumbling. if, in my example, i really can't stop myself from stealing apples or whatever, i should 'cut off' my opportunity to do so. but the real solution is cutting off the part of me that really causes me to sin - the lust of the eyes, the flesh, and the pride of life. how do we do that? what implement cuts soul & spirit? the Word of God, the spiritual sword.
so 'cutting off' my hands and my feet is equivocated with submitting myself to Him: picking up my cross, by which i have been crucified to the world, even my own flesh, and the world and my flesh have become crucified to me. picking up this cross, and following Him.

if you really have no other solution than to gouge out your eyes, let it be so. but you might try looking at Jesus rather than at the object of your lust, first. look to Him, to take away in you that which makes you fall - and give your flesh no occasion

Blik · Jul 3, 2020

We have many sayings we use to express ourselves that make no literal sense, and so do the people who wrote scripture. Like: go fly a kite, or throw out the baby with the bath water. A saying in scripture for the word justice is "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". How people of the times those scriptures were written in would laugh at our taking them literately.

Judges1318 · Jul 3, 2020

Embankment said:

The foot, hand, and eye is anyone who causes one of these little ones who believe in Jesus to sin.
It's better to remove them from the body of Christ than to keep them in the body of Christ and cause impressionable new believers to stumble so as to go to hell:

"42“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell" - Mark 9:42-47

MattforJesus · Jul 3, 2020

Embankment said:

Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

We know it cannot mean literally but Jesus is stressing the point of how sin is terrible, and it would be better to have no eyes than to sin with your eyes by lusting, or sinning by using your hands or feet.

Jesus said woe to the person that offenses come for all sin will be punished.

Jesus did not say to do it but you would be in a better position if you did not have instruments of the body that can sin.

But it would be a sin to cut off your hand for we are God's creation, and it would not stop a person from sinning anyway, for love does not think an evil thought, and Jesus said if you lust after a woman in your heart it is the same as doing the act.

So you could only be a head and upper body with no arms and legs and still sin that would be punished if you did not repent for however we think that is how we are whether we do the act or not.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 3, 2020

Embankment said:

Eternal Hell is so awful that if your eye causes you to sin (not just stumble) it is better to actually lose that eye than face eternal Hell. And in spite of this we have Hell-deniers and naysayers on this forum.

MessageOfTheCross · Jul 3, 2020

“THE SERIOUSNESS OF OFFENCES

Matthew 18

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me (doesn’t refer to weak Christians as some believe, but rather to those who trust Christ and the Cross exclusively), it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea (Christ again uses symbolism).

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! (Offences against true Believers.) for it must needs be that offences come (due to the Fall); but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! (All who touch true Believers touch Christ.)

8 Wherefore if your hand or your foot offend you, cut them off, and cast them from you (symbolism): it is better for you to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire (while not offending true Believers will not save one, offending them will definitely bring about the most serious degree of punishment in eternity).

9 And if your eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (Christ continues to use symbolism).

10 Take heed that you despise not one of these little ones (one who trusts in Christ and the Cross); for I say unto you, That in Heaven their Angels do always behold the Face of My Father which is in Heaven (every true Believer is assigned an Angel, who reports to the Heavenly Father, any and all things pertaining to that Believer).”

JSM

acts5_29 · Jul 3, 2020

While I believe this Scripture to be literal: i.e. if your eye causes you to sin, then it is quite literally better to gouge your eye out than to be thrown in Hell, I believe this Scripture to have symbolic application aplenty.

- if easy access to food makes you a glutton, remove the food
- if access to porn makes you prone to view it, remove the porn
- if a gun in the house tempts you to murder, rob, commit aggravated assault, domestic violence, or otherwise do something you'll regret, don't keep a gun in your house
- In my case: if playing basketball causes you to argue over repeated fouls and cuss a lot, don't play.

maryjohanna · Jul 3, 2020

I think it is Christ's way of reminding us how serious sinful acts truly are. Honestly, works don't save us. But does that mean we shouldn't make the effort to produce good fruits and avoid sin? No. We need to be reminded that we need to pray and do all we can to avoid sin. It is better for us to enter the kingdom of Heaven with the effort of avoidance rather than not trying. We need to understand the seriousness of our sins and the impact they have on our salvation.

Judges1318 · Jul 4, 2020

The eye, the hand, and the foot is the PERSON that causes stumbling. And not just stumbling, but stumbling that leads to eternal damnation. They are what Jesus says should be cut off from the body to preserve the body.

For example, the Judaizers of the early church. They held themselves up as the 'eyes', the seers, of the church and were causing new converts, like the Galatians, to turn from the gospel of Christ and adopt a 'gospel' of works that could not save them.

Paul was so angry with them that he wished they would go the whole way with their work of circumcision so they would be, according to the law they served, excluded from the congregation where they could no longer influence believers to stumble and fall from justification through Christ:

"7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.
12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" - Galatians 5:7-8,12

"1No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord." - Deuteronomy 23:1

Matthew 18:9?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

cuz

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Active member

Banned