Meaning Baptism of the Holy Spirit

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Evmur

Evmur

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#61
Feb 28, 2021
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#61
Elijah777 said:
OK. Then, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is a 2nd manifestation of HS, after the person is born again. Cornelius and his house, heard Peter preach the Gospel ... supposing they must have BELIEVED during the sermon ... they got Born Again ... then HS came on them. Right ?
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I like Cornelius got the full whack at once in my own home.

... it all depends upon what you hear of the gospel and what you believe ... and the grace of God.

... if the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not preached and so not believed for and expected [as a general rule] it will not be given.

God will confirm what is said as it accords with His word

... but God is sovereign
 
Elshya

Elshya

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Feb 12, 2023
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#64
Cameron143 said:
There is certainly a place for knowing and employing formal grammar but ease of communication is fostered by informal word usage or it wouldn't be the predominant form of communication. Much the same as formal wear. I doubt you sleep in an evening gown.
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Unfortunately, for the autistic among us, metaphor or obtuse language, or lack thereof (complete, grammatically correct sentences), makes it difficult to converse. If you hadn't explained about the debate thing, I never would have had clue one what the OP was about.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#65
Elshya said:
Unfortunately, for the autistic among us, metaphor or obtuse language, or lack thereof (complete, grammatically correct sentences), makes it difficult to converse. If you hadn't explained about the debate thing, I never would have had clue one what the OP was about.
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Hi and welcome. This wasn't really a debate. Magenta and I were just goofing around. She has yet to concede the point because she doesn't like me to be right. Whoops...I may be in trouble now.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#66
May 24, 2014
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#66
Elijah777 said:
Thank you Oyster67.

I agree with this general statement. Would you agree that this born again manifestation of HS ... in the heart of the Believer ... happens based on the principle of Romans 10:9-10 ! Assuming that repentance is all part of that confessing JESUS and believing God has raised Him from the dead.
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Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes. God desires the kind of belief and faith that is not ashamed of His Son who died to set us free. Jesus underwent humiliation and shame as well as pain for us and we should count it a privilege to confess Him as Lord and Savior as opportunities arrive (not just a one-time thing.)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#69
Jul 18, 2017
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#69
The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who repent and believe. Acts 2:38 makes this perfectly clear. That same chapter also makes it perfectly clear that the three thousand souls who received the Holy Spirit that day were baptized with Christian baptism, but none of them spoke in tongues. It was the apostles and disciples who were the ones speaking in tongues. So the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is simply the gift of the Holy Spirit, who then regenerates the believer (Titus 3:4-7).

The Pentecostal churches teach another doctrine called the baptism IN the Holy Spirit, with the evidence being the so-called gift of tongues. But since the Bible is very clear that not all will speak in tongues, this is obviously a false doctrine. Also modern tongues are not the same as Bible tongues.
 
E

Elijah777

Member
#70
Mar 19, 2023
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#70
Nehemiah6 said:
What about why and how?:cool:
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Yes!

WHAT ? Jesus said He'd BAPTIZE His followers with the Holy Spirit ( Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5, 8 ) plus John promised same thing ( Matt. 3.11 ) = the Spirit coming UPON Believer, which doesn't mean IN them. The INDWELLING of Holy Spirit happens at salvation ( Jn 4.14 ) ... the Baptism occurs AFTER the person is Born Again.

WHEN ? The 10 disciples ( 12 less Judas and Thomas ) on evening following Resurrection were Born Again that night = Holy Spirit IN them ( John 20.22 ). So then the 12 disciples ( 11 + new Matthias ) and/or 120 ... were Baptized WITH the Holy Spirit at Pentecost ( Acts 2:3-4 ).

WHERE ? For the 120 it was in the Upper Room. For the 3000 Jews in Jerusalem ... somewhere near the Upper Room ??? For Cornelius and his house ... in his house ( Acts 10 ) ??? For the Ephesian ... was it their house or outside ( Acts 19 ) ???

Regarless. Baptism in Holy Spirit is a 2nd manifestation of HS and always follows Believers salvation ( HS in them ). HS baptism can happen within seconds/minutes after person really believes ... example Cornelius and house. Or later, as in the case of the Samaritans ( Acts 8 ). Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God ( terminology = Born Again ) , they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit [ conclusion, terminology implies THE BAPTISM ] ( Acts 8.14 - 15 ). Peter/John knew they were born again ... they why pray for Holy Spirit ? Because, they were praying for the SECOND manifestation = the Baptism !
 
Caan

Caan

Ca'an
#74
Mar 6, 2023
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#74
With respect- Nehemiah6 -Your Servant must disagree,
I Being baptized in the Holy Spirit , speaking in tongues,
Before water baptism, and before being in any church,
or having any knowledge of the Holy Spirit! Bless Our Christ!

Many Humble Apologies, time constraints do not permit further
input.
With Your grace your servant will return and continue the discussion.
Thank You!
In His Service,
Ca'an
 
E

Elijah777

Member
#77
Mar 19, 2023
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#77
Nehemiah6 said:
The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who repent and believe. Acts 2:38 makes this perfectly clear. That same chapter also makes it perfectly clear that the three thousand souls who received the Holy Spirit that day were baptized with Christian baptism, but none of them spoke in tongues. It was the apostles and disciples who were the ones speaking in tongues. So the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is simply the gift of the Holy Spirit, who then regenerates the believer (Titus 3:4-7).

The Pentecostal churches teach another doctrine called the baptism IN the Holy Spirit, with the evidence being the so-called gift of tongues. But since the Bible is very clear that not all will speak in tongues, this is obviously a false doctrine. Also modern tongues are not the same as Bible tongues.
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High Nehemiah. Sorry ... the Pentecostal church DID NOT invent that TERM. Jesus DID ... He said He would BAPTIZE the believers. Yes. I agree the repentant person will be BORN OF THE SPIRIT ... like Jesus told Nicodemus ... and the woman at the Well. You have to wrestle with John 20.22 [ So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. ] The disciples got BORN AGAIN that night ... 50 days before Pentecost ! The 120 were Born Again sometime before Pentecost, BASED UPON the PRINCIPLE of Romans 10.9-10 ... they SAW Jesus in the flesh and were confessing Jesus had been raised from the dead.

You CANNOT assume the 3000 in Jerusalem ( day of Pentecost ) didn't speak in tongues. Why? Based upon your Acts 2.38-39. Those Jews asked Peter ... what does that tongue thing mean ( 3000 were not in upper rm ... so didn't see HS come UPON the 120 ) ... they only saw and heard the TONGUES. So Peter promised the 3000 ... repent ( get born again ) ... then be WATER baptized ( Peter, nor you ... water baptize UNSAVED people ) ... so Holy Spirit would be IN them BEFORE they rec'd BAPTISM of HS ... THEN Peter said ... you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ( baptism of HS ). What does that mean ... it was conditioned upon their being Born Again ? It's the SECOND manifestation ... just like the 12 and/or 120 had .... and was described ... as the Promised of Joel ( = God's Promise ). The 3000 would LOGICALLY conclude and expect ... they WOULD have the same resulting manifestation = speaking in tongues ( why ... they didn't see HS come ON 120 ). This is a stronger arguement ... due to other SCRIPTURAL examples ... Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19 ... I CONCLUDE the 3000 new believers all spoke with tongues.
 
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