Mega Church or No Name Church

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,448
113
#81
Good question. It depends on several things doesn't it. If the pastor planted the church and grew it to 6,000 or 10,000 people bringing in millions a month (I have no idea if that is realistic number for that number of people) then he should probably be compensated at least $300K a year. This may be too low to some people and too high to others. I think it would be the right amount to avoid the appearance of being in it for the money. Most people can manage $300K a year and over time gain financial independence if they are smart with their money. If the church is bringing in millions and his salary was capped at 300K no one would be offended, and if they were they would be offended if he was paid in turkeys and hams, some people will always be offended.

Now if the pastor was successful at writing books I think he has a right to keep that money just like any writer of fiction or poetry has a right to his. I do not think that because he is a pastor he should not be compensated for his writing. And I think if he were very successful with his books he should stop taking any salary from the church sense he no longer needed any. I have heard of mega pastors doing this today.

I also believe that if anyone wants to give a pastor a gift directly and insists that it be used for him and his family and not for the church that he has a right to receive it and use it as he wills.
Uh, Oh ---!!!!!! You are obviously coming from a different place than I am. My church of about 60 has two pastors and a deacon. All three are part-time and have another job. They probably make an average of $40000 to $50000 from their other jobs each, and then get about $5000 a year compensation from church offerings.

I could take that $300000 a year job for five years, and then retire and come back to this church and pastor the next twenty years for free!

But then I don't live in California or a high profile high income area!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,448
113
#82
I said legitimate. As in provable, reliably demonstrated etc. Which of course includes videos being recorded for proof, with which we can review the phenomena.

The miracles during the formation of the early Church were orchestrated in such a way that they were meant to be witnessed an provable beyond all refutation. So that is the standard that must be met and what I am asking for, no less.
Probably won't work if you are looking for signs and wonders!! LOL!

Ah, I get your point and that is OK - and obviously I have not gone to this church yet either - because I am probably just as skeptical as you are -- so we keep living our dull, monotonous, powerless lives ?????????? Just kidding!!!
 

Relic

Active member
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
28
#83
Sorry saint sounds like you and the others feel like misfits and started your own fellowship.
Truth of the matter is if you see the other churches as cults you have no love for the brethren.
Seems like you and the others are seeking a comfort zone for whatever reason.
That is so far from the truth, it's not even close. But you've expressed your opinion
and thanks for participating. God bless you. God is love you know.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
1,330
113
#84
I said legitimate. As in provable, reliably demonstrated etc. Which of course includes videos being recorded for proof, with which we can review the phenomena.

The miracles during the formation of the early Church were orchestrated in such a way that they were meant to be witnessed an provable beyond all refutation. So that is the standard that must be met and what I am asking for, no less.
And yet, there were many people (almost everyone, us included) that just has to have faith in the Lord of the substantive nature of these events. We are basing this discussion on the belief that they occurred back then, why would today be any different?

I personally am rather against video proof and I am also against many experiences being dissected, drug though the dirt and trampled on by those that have no intention of belief and only want to discredit.

It's a long topic, I am myself skeptical of many things but there is enough anecdotal evidence of miraculous healings that "doctors can't explain through prayer" that I feel people should be willing to at least "suspend their disbelief". Their response I think is something along the lines of "This doesn't make sense, but there is a lot we don't know about the human body." What do you think would happen to someone that experienced limb regeneration on camera? Do you think the government would have no interest? Not to get conspiratorial but I would have no intention of having a record if that happened to me.

Speaking miraculously in a documentable tongue fluently (greek, german, spanish, russian, etc) could not be proven. You would literally have to have the entirety of all the data of a person's life and unless literally every moment of their life were livestreamed, there would be no way to prove such a thing.

There are many ways to "fake" the miraculous in a way that cannot be disproven without the appropriate data. Suppose I only cut out bathroom breaks from a live stream of a whole lifetime, or I stared at the wall or whatever. I could be studying a language book or using that 5 minutes a day for 10 years which would be almost 300 hours. Plenty enough to learn a language.



My only point with relating that is that since there is no way to prove a false miracle "false" how could you prove a true miracle "true"? As far as my experience goes, I can only go with how things bear up in my spirit. Either revulsion (like what is the case with some of the false stuff out there) or this impossible to describe feeling that accompanies truth. If I could "capture" it with words I would attempt, but I will say there are some "inbetween" things that I have no opinion on because they feel almost neutral. It could be that these are human anomalies like the prophets who "saw things by their own spirit" or it could be my eyes aren't opened to it yet or perhaps may not ever be in this life for whatever reason.

I have considered this topic frequently, if you like I could provide a much more detailed version of how/why I think "proof" is unreliable. We walk by faith, if the Lord confirms something physical "evidence" is typically only a very tiny part of the equation and for the most part does not factor in for the general whole as sort of contradictory to "faith vs sight" (John 20:29). Tons of people witnessed Jesus doing what he did "and yet". People can believe in the miraculous and indeed witness things and not believe that he is who he says he is. Even in Acts, the perceptions of the public (like worshipping them as gods) is skewed and even if some were "set straight" there "may" have been still others that maintained that opinion to no effect regarding salvation.

Faith and the impact of "proof" must be considered when discussing empirical evidence.
 

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
63
#85
Full disclosure: I am not affiliated with any church.
Paul encouraged us to affiliate with a church, the purpose of church is for spiritual growth. The journey to Heaven is very hard and narrow and it has a door that is a huge weight that weighs a ton. The devil makes us weaker and brings doubts and impediment, but the church with Jesus makes us stronger. Only someone that can spiritually lift that door that weighs a ton can enter into heaven, it requires a lot of spiritual body conditioning, taking spiritual vitamins and spiritual training to prepare for a person to lift this door that weighs a ton and walk this road that is hard and narrow. Church is the spiritual gym, without it it would be still possible but much, much harder to reach the strength required to lift the ton and take the journey that we must take. That is an analogy.