More about Israel.

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes I agree salvation is of the lion of the tribe of Judah (that's a no-brainer), but that is a singular Jew, and you said salvation is still of a plural form of that word, which makes it sound like people living today have something to do with salvation. If you are simply saying that salvation is still of Jesus, then yes of course it is, but why would anyone think that had or could change?

Amen
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭


“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1, 3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Mem]

I listened to Alistair Begg this morning preaching his sermon, Famous Last Words, in' which he noted Joseph's inclusion within the Hall of Faith, citing Heb11:22. He was specifically speaking of Joseph's faith "when his end was near," but it occurred to me that Joseph had enough faith to bother with instructions for his bones to be taken with the Israelites in the time of their exodus. Why would Joseph even bother his brothers about taking his bones to Shechem if that land, which was promised, was of no significance in regard to the time of Joseph's resurrection?
Heb11:39-40
39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

 

[brightfame52]

The Mystery is that the Gentiles God has been calling is Israel.

Rom 11:23-27

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

When the Fulness of the Gentiles have completed, then God has fulfilled the promise that all Israel shall be saved

Eph 3:3-8

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 18

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Mystery is that the Gentiles God has been calling is Israel.

Rom 11:23-27

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

When the Fulness of the Gentiles have completed, then God has fulfilled the promise that all Israel shall be saved

Eph 3:3-8

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 18

“And so all Israel shall be saved:”
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. …..For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16, 27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[BBerean]

The Church’s foundation is totally Jewish , Jesus , the Apostles , first converts . The church does not replace Israel . Remember flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God Jesus told the Jews at one time , but that a man needed to be born again . It’s not at all confusing . The gentiles were started to be grafted in after Israel rejection met its end , until Jesus comes back . He restores everything at that time . A few thoughts.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Church’s foundation is totally Jewish , Jesus , the Apostles , first converts . The church does not replace Israel . Remember flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God Jesus told the Jews at one time , but that a man needed to be born again . It’s not at all confusing . The gentiles were started to be grafted in after Israel rejection met its end , until Jesus comes back . He restores everything at that time . A few thoughts.

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen,( isreal) that they might receive the fruits of it.

And the husbandmen took his servants, ( the early prophets ) and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( the latter messianic prophets ) and they did unto them likewise. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?


Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭

who is he talking about killing and rejecting his servants he sent ? And then lately he sent his son to them …..but they also rejected and killed him . What nation is he saying “ therefore the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to another nation ?”

And who’s he talking about here ?

“I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.

These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:1-9, 11-12, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who is he talking about allowing a slaughtering of and replacing with other people here ? Who is the rebellious people he called tbat continually defiles everything and provoked his anger continually ? Who he’s swearing to recompence thier sins upon them and cause them to bow down to this slaughter but yet he’s going to spare a seed that will come forth of Judah and be the hier ?

It doesn’t matter what our flesh and blood says we are to God it matter whether we have the spirit of Jesus Christ in our hearts by faith believing the gospel of his son . This brings us to be the population of the new thing he’s promised we’re born again for a new creation to come after this one is destroyed

 

[Luke1813]

wars happen.

i agree replacement theology is terrible. imagine replacing the one seed of abraham, Christ, with multiple seeds(plural).

derek prince was all about teaching christians have demons, not a fan of the guy.

you said that the world is under the control of satan, then why should we support israel? you mean to tell me they arent of the world? the israelis are americans, russians, germans. they have the same type of lifestyle as the western world with their gay pride parades and sodomite festivals.

supporting any political entity as a christian is a big mistake, Jesus wasn't preaching that, the apostles didnt preach that and its just a massive block in evangelizing muslims. terrible idea to support palestinians or israelis. stay out of that mess and let the fanatics kill each other.

A voice of reason.

 

[BBerean]

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen,( isreal) that they might receive the fruits of it.

And the husbandmen took his servants, ( the early prophets ) and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( the latter messianic prophets ) and they did unto them likewise. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?


Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭

who is he talking about killing and rejecting his servants he sent ? And then lately he sent his son to them …..but they also rejected and killed him . What nation is he saying “ therefore the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to another nation ?”

And who’s he talking about here ?

“I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.

These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:1-9, 11-12, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who is he talking about allowing a slaughtering of and replacing with other people here ? Who is the rebellious people he called tbat continually defiles everything and provoked his anger continually ? Who he’s swearing to recompence thier sins upon them and cause them to bow down to this slaughter but yet he’s going to spare a seed that will come forth of Judah and be the hier ?

It doesn’t matter what our flesh and blood says we are to God it matter whether we have the spirit of Jesus Christ in our hearts by faith believing the gospel of his son . This brings us to be the population of the new thing he’s promised we’re born again for a new creation to come after this one is destroyed

The prophets where the servants that where sent to the Jews preaching truth and warning to disobedient people Israel by large , to repent and turn from their evil ways etc . Then God sent Jesus his Son the Messiah or Christ . Both rejected because they spoke Gods word which they hated . Receiving of the word of God is where it all begins. Then obedience to it by the Grace of God . Not man’s power that’s for sure .

 

[BBerean]

The prophets where the servants that where sent to the Jews preaching truth and warning to disobedient people Israel by large , to repent and turn from their evil ways etc . Then God sent Jesus his Son the Messiah or Christ . Both rejected because they spoke Gods word which they hated . Receiving of the word of God is where it all begins. Then obedience to it by the Grace of God . Not man’s power that’s for sure .

I would add that many religious people are in the same mold as the religious people of those times , they prefer their own doctrines over the truth of Gods word , That gives them the power to be right in their own eyes . As Jesus said to the Pharisees because you see your sin remains . It’s submission to the truth not our own ways of what we think or want the truth to be . The Pharisees could not get this . So they desired to kill Jesus to continue to have their self righteous power over the people…

 

[Aaron56]

I would add that many religious people are in the same mold as the religious people of those times , they prefer their own doctrines over the truth of Gods word , That gives them the power to be right in their own eyes . As Jesus said to the Pharisees because you see your sin remains . It’s submission to the truth not our own ways of what we think or want the truth to be . The Pharisees could not get this . So they desired to kill Jesus to continue to have their self righteous power over the people…

Yeah, instead of the Law producing deep regret at the impossibility of God's standard, the Jews created a religious institution that was primarily focused on sustaining itself. By shoring up influence its teachers and preachers insulated themselves from criticism by the general population while the majority of the population bore the weight of their corruption in taxes and compulsive giving. Commerce became entangled in religious practice erstwhile money and power supplanted caring for the people as the mission of the synagogue. Instead of pining for the Savior of man to heal the afflicted, they saw the world as full of their enemies in need of a ruler to overthrow hostile regimes.

Nothing is new under the sun.

 

[brightfame52]

Gentiles grafted into the commonwealth of Israel !​

Paul wrote as it pertaineth to the Mystery,

Eph 2:11-13

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Now the Gentiles are part of the commonwealth of Israel, One Body Eph 2:16

and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul illustrates this truth here n Rom 11:17,24

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

The Good olive tree is the commonwealth of Israel, Spiritual Israel, not the ethnic nation of israel. See there were two Israels, Pau brings that point out here Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

One of these is Spiritual Israel the commonwealth, and the other is national ethnic israel pertaining to the flesh !

The Gentile converts were grafted into Israel the commonwealth Spiritual Israel, the elect remnant of Grace within national israel !

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The prophets where the servants that where sent to the Jews preaching truth and warning to disobedient people Israel by large , to repent and turn from their evil ways etc . Then God sent Jesus his Son the Messiah or Christ . Both rejected because they spoke Gods word which they hated . Receiving of the word of God is where it all begins. Then obedience to it by the Grace of God . Not man’s power that’s for sure .

Well said! Let’s talk about what you mean by “ grace “ I think that’s where alot of peoples beliefs and understanding part ways

Gods grace teaches us things

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I guess my question is should grace teach repentance like it says there ? And upright living now in this life like it says there ? Should we underersnd jesus died to redeem us from all our iniquity ?and create us as people who are willing and ready and happy to do good works ? And not simply to excuse it as it goes on ?

Would the wrong message of “ grace “ be problematic ? For instance is a person insists we don’t actually need to obey or do anything God said , we’ll be saved anyways ? Is that how Gods grace works ? Or is it more likely coming to those who hear and believe the gospel ?

things like jesus teaching us we need to repent and do good in the gospel is this how gods grace teaches us ? Or does it matter if we reject his word ?

 

[BBerean]

Well said! Let’s talk about what you mean by “ grace “ I think that’s where alot of peoples beliefs and understanding part ways

Gods grace teaches us things

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I guess my question is should grace teach repentance like it says there ? And upright living now in this life like it says there ? Should we underersnd jesus died to redeem us from all our iniquity ?and create us as people who are willing and ready and happy to do good works ? And not simply to excuse it as it goes on ?

Would the wrong message of “ grace “ be problematic ? For instance is a person insists we don’t actually need to obey or do anything God said , we’ll be saved anyways ? Is that how Gods grace works ? Or is it more likely coming to those who hear and believe the gospel ?

things like jesus teaching us we need to repent and do good in the gospel is this how gods grace teaches us ? Or does it matter if we reject his word ?

Grace is a work of the Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and helps us change our hearts , enables us to turn from sin and believe the truth and follow the Holy Spirit in obedience by doing the truth . It’s said that the Holy Spirit is the gift of God , and those that are led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God . The Holy Spirit imparts the Love of God and knowledge of God and power to us . And gives us understanding in spiritual things . The word of God and the Spirit of God are in complete agreement. Our Relationship with God grows , and we can become mature over time , and be as Jesus said one with God . As Jesus prayed for us to be so . Apostle Paul said he pressed on even unto the resurrection of the dead . So we never totally arrive until Jesus comes . It may sound easy but it’s a battle getting through all the false doctrines and evils that the world is in . But Jesus said he will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail! I find that so rock solid that in the end Jesus wins . So let’s be overcomers. The state of churches today are not better than the seven churches in Revelation. The last church is very much a call to the individual, so take heart Jesus never gives up on his Church . I’m sure lots more can be said , this is what comes to me now ! God bless you all , in Jesus name , follow after charity !

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Grace is a work of the Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and helps us change our hearts , enables us to turn from sin and believe the truth and follow the Holy Spirit in obedience by doing the truth . It’s said that the Holy Spirit is the gift of God , and those that are led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God . The Holy Spirit imparts the Love of God and knowledge of God and power to us . And gives us understanding in spiritual things . The word of God and the Spirit of God are in complete agreement. Our Relationship with God grows , and we can become mature over time , and be as Jesus said one with God . As Jesus prayed for us to be so . Apostle Paul said he pressed on even unto the resurrection of the dead . So we never totally arrive until Jesus comes . It may sound easy but it’s a battle getting through all the false doctrines and evils that the world is in . But Jesus said he will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail! I find that so rock solid that in the end Jesus wins . So let’s be overcomers. The state of churches today are not better than the seven churches in Revelation. The last church is very much a call to the individual, so take heart Jesus never gives up on his Church . I’m sure lots more can be said , this is what comes to me now ! God bless you all , in Jesus name , follow after charity !

“Grace is a work of the Holy Spirit ,”

the holy spirit preached the gospel ….

“enables us to turn from sin and believe the truth and follow the Holy Spirit in obedience by doing the truth”

right that’s what the Holy Spirit does for us who hear and believe the gospel. he changes our corrupt Will so that we can change our corrupt actions and come to obedience.rather than being damned with the world who rejects him.

What about faith though ? We are saved by grace through faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith needs to originate with what God said like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.


And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If God hadn’t told Moses this there would have been nothing to cause the darkness only Gods power can do this . So when he spoke it to Moses and Moses acted upon his word , this is the entire principle of faith . If God said something it’s absolute whether we accept it in belief and respond or not the outcome will be according to what he said.

this is true and provable throughout the Bible god acts upon the things he declares and to us …..that’s the gospel


the holy spirit will never contradict his own words .

 

[BBerean]

“Grace is a work of the Holy Spirit ,”

the holy spirit preached the gospel ….

“enables us to turn from sin and believe the truth and follow the Holy Spirit in obedience by doing the truth”

right that’s what the Holy Spirit does for us who hear and believe the gospel. he changes our corrupt Will so that we can change our corrupt actions and come to obedience.rather than being damned with the world who rejects him.

What about faith though ? We are saved by grace through faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith needs to originate with what God said like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.


And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If God hadn’t told Moses this there would have been nothing to cause the darkness only Gods power can do this . So when he spoke it to Moses and Moses acted upon his word , this is the entire principle of faith . If God said something it’s absolute whether we accept it in belief and respond or not the outcome will be according to what he said.

this is true and provable throughout the Bible god acts upon the things he declares and to us …..that’s the gospel


the holy spirit will never contradict his own words .

Sounds good to me , faith is actually obedience to the word of God and God knowing our hearts enables was to have faith. It’s all the work of God we can do nothing on our own . I remember hearing a gospel long ago that totally depended on my believing it . I knew something was wrong because I had to be the power . It really was a deception. It never set well with me . But continuing in the word of God is so important to learn the truth . It’s the will of God that all men come to the knowledge of the truth . So seek and ye will find Jesus said …

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sounds good to me , faith is actually obedience to the word of God and God knowing our hearts enables was to have faith. It’s all the work of God we can do nothing on our own . I remember hearing a gospel long ago that totally depended on my believing it . I knew something was wrong because I had to be the power . It really was a deception. It never set well with me . But continuing in the word of God is so important to learn the truth . It’s the will of God that all men come to the knowledge of the truth . So seek and ye will find Jesus said …

“It’s all the work of God we can do nothing on our own .“

Yes . I never said anything about on our own I’m talking about believers according to Gods word what they can do according to what scripture says they have been given by God

I would say faith results in obedience to Gods word I agree there but I wouldn’t say “ faith is obedience “ faith is when God tells me something beforehand and I believe it’s true even if that requires an action on my part. Sometimes it doesn’t require an action it depends on what he said .

for instance if you hear the creation story and believe it’s true , your belief is by faith . It doesn’t require an action it’s a belief or something you know is true when you hear it

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in other words if we hear this and believe it’s true

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1, 3, 6, 9, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then it’s through faith we understand that god framed and created the world through merely speaking it forth saying “ let this be … and then it was so “

But when god tells you something and then explains the outcome if you do it then belief of what he said always leads to the action. He told Noah “ I’m gonna flood the world build an ark like I tell you and I’ll save you and your family “ now Noah who first was given grace by the lord , must act because that’s what god told him would save him . If he doesn’t act and o ey and build the ark he’s gonna die also in the flood . Noah built the ark by faith .

it required god to tell him about the flood and how to build the ark and give him the promise of salvation . It also requires Noah to accept that the foood was coming as god said , if he does then he’s got a reason to build the ark in obedience . If he rejects it and says well I don’t know the skies look clear …. He’s not gonna ever build the ark he thinks it’s not necassary .

If he thinks the flood is coming soon he’ll build it he thinks it’s necassary . It’s important what God tells a group within a covenant or in a situation . Those are the laws and regulations of that covenant or situation it will be as God has declared faith is what knows tbat is true and this then governs the actions of the faithful

 

[BBerean]

“It’s all the work of God we can do nothing on our own .“

Yes . I never said anything about on our own I’m talking about believers according to Gods word what they can do according to what scripture says they have been given by God

I would say faith results in obedience to Gods word I agree there but I wouldn’t say “ faith is obedience “ faith is when God tells me something beforehand and I believe it’s true even if that requires an action on my part. Sometimes it doesn’t require an action it depends on what he said .

for instance if you hear the creation story and believe it’s true , your belief is by faith . It doesn’t require an action it’s a belief or something you know is true when you hear it

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in other words if we hear this and believe it’s true

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1, 3, 6, 9, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then it’s through faith we understand that god framed and created the world through merely speaking it forth saying “ let this be … and then it was so “

But when god tells you something and then explains the outcome if you do it then belief of what he said always leads to the action. He told Noah “ I’m gonna flood the world build an ark like I tell you and I’ll save you and your family “ now Noah who first was given grace by the lord , must act because that’s what god told him would save him . If he doesn’t act and o ey and build the ark he’s gonna die also in the flood . Noah built the ark by faith .

it required god to tell him about the flood and how to build the ark and give him the promise of salvation . It also requires Noah to accept that the foood was coming as god said , if he does then he’s got a reason to build the ark in obedience . If he rejects it and says well I don’t know the skies look clear …. He’s not gonna ever build the ark he thinks it’s not necassary .

If he thinks the flood is coming soon he’ll build it he thinks it’s necassary . It’s important what God tells a group within a covenant or in a situation . Those are the laws and regulations of that covenant or situation it will be as God has declared faith is what knows tbat is true and this then governs the actions of the faithful

Well said ! Unbelief is called disobedience. Some thing I learned from listening to Jesus , he called John the Baptist the greatest prophet, so I listened carefully to what John said , he did not say a lot in the NT , but what he said was helpful to me . One thing he said is “ no man can receive anything except God give it to him “ that was in KJV so how did I understand that ? It puts us at Gods mercy . So we seek the mercy of God because we are helpless . I have found God merciful ! And his mercy endures forever . Said in the Psalms…

 

[BBerean]

Well said ! Unbelief is called disobedience. Some thing I learned from listening to Jesus , he called John the Baptist the greatest prophet, so I listened carefully to what John said , he did not say a lot in the NT , but what he said was helpful to me . One thing he said is “ no man can receive anything except God give it to him “ that was in KJV so how did I understand that ? It puts us at Gods mercy . So we seek the mercy of God because we are helpless . I have found God merciful ! And his mercy endures forever . Said in the Psalms…

I wanted to add that God loves mercy over judgment, so seeking his mercy is the way to go . I still do that at times , he is very forgiving… amen!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well said ! Unbelief is called disobedience. Some thing I learned from listening to Jesus , he called John the Baptist the greatest prophet, so I listened carefully to what John said , he did not say a lot in the NT , but what he said was helpful to me . One thing he said is “ no man can receive anything except God give it to him “ that was in KJV so how did I understand that ? It puts us at Gods mercy . So we seek the mercy of God because we are helpless . I have found God merciful ! And his mercy endures forever . Said in the Psalms…

Yes I believe this is gods gift of mercy offered freely without cost to everyone all of creation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

The gospel in my belief , is what God has done for us that offers salvation to believers . and then he sent out his witnesses to all creation to spread the news of gods kingdom offering salvation to all who believed the message

Our part is to accept and abide in the doctrine Christ taught believers in the gospel , as we learn it .like children learn lessons from thier father

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice Christs doctrine was never just “ don’t do this “ don’t do this or else “ do this thing or else “ it was much more about planting seeds n the mknds and hearts of the listeners that would induce consideration about the message he was preaching . His sermons and sayings really take us considering and praying and over time things make sense as we mature and continue forward” pressing toward the goal to win the prize “

It’s a process of maturing and not a boy being born again but growing up in him. This is already provided for in the gospel even the gift of the Holy Ghost is a fruit of hearing and believing the gospel. Which is Gods grand work for mankind and his design for our salvation

 

[BBerean]

Yes I believe this is gods gift of mercy offered freely without cost to everyone all of creation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

The gospel in my belief , is what God has done for us that offers salvation to believers . and then he sent out his witnesses to all creation to spread the news of gods kingdom offering salvation to all who believed the message

Our part is to accept and abide in the doctrine Christ taught believers in the gospel , as we learn it .like children learn lessons from thier father

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice Christs doctrine was never just “ don’t do this “ don’t do this or else “ do this thing or else “ it was much more about planting seeds n the mknds and hearts of the listeners that would induce consideration about the message he was preaching . His sermons and sayings really take us considering and praying and over time things make sense as we mature and continue forward” pressing toward the goal to win the prize “

It’s a process of maturing and not a boy being born again but growing up in him. This is already provided for in the gospel even the gift of the Holy Ghost is a fruit of hearing and believing the gospel. Which is Gods grand work for mankind and his design for our salvation

Yes and it takes time to come to the knowledge of truth , and the truth sets us free . There are errors that the truth sets us free from . I found from reading the Bible rather than listening to others . That way we get the understanding from God . Romans ch 9,10, 11 very well explain Gods mercy . 9.15 . Also it was good reading these chapters so much in them in relation to Israel and gentiles . Learning to abide in Christ is the victory over sin and the world through the Love of God and so precious. It’s not just a salvation from the penalty of sin , but salvation by the life of Christ from sin and death .