More about Israel.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So, when Paul said circumcision is nothing, he meant that it did not mean anything to be saved or be part of God's kingdom. This is true for Jews and Gentiles in the context of salvation, not being chosen by people for a role or task.

Paul didn't write specifically to gentiles; he wrote to churches that undoubtedly had Jewish members because scripture plainly says so.. So when he wrote that circumcision is nothing, he meant that it is nothing in God's eyes. Circumcision no longer brings people into covenant relationship with God as it did from Abraham to Pentecost. Only spiritual circumcision makes one chosen, and that is accomplished only through faith.

 

[God-fearing]

They looked upon him that was pierced nearly 2000 years ago, and that didn't change anything for the unbelievers; they still disbelieved. What makes you think it's going to be any different now? Because a prophecy has to be fulfilled? It was fulfilled nearly 2000 years ago. Put away an unbelieving heart and believe what scripture says.
.

But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. And again another scripture saith, They shall look upon him whom they pierced. John 19:33-37​

The many disciples did lament over his death, just as they rejoiced at his entrance into Jerusalem as king 4 days earlier. They were the chosen remnant of Israel that inherited the promises, as were those who heard and believed their words afterwards.

The verse in Revelation pertains to the whole world, not just Jerusalem as the Zexhariah prophecy foretold, and was fullfilled. When he returns every eye in the world will see him, and all will lament over him, not because they see him as a lost son, but because they know he has come to judge them.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7​

Strange I just read Zechariah 12 and 13. None of the events happened 2000 yrs ago.
The problem i have with this is Jesus was crucified on Passover. Outside Jerusalem. The jews were in Jerusalem at the temple (most of them) for Passover
Jesus in Zechariah says the piercing happend ....in the house of my friends. Pass event.
It was Rome that destroyed in 70 ad not all the nations. The nations that rose up in Zechariah were defeated.
The prophecy of ...the sheep will scatter when the Shepard is slain fits but yes they did mourn, untill the 3rd day.
Zechariah 12&13 are future events.
As I said before there are shadows in the gospels of future events but to say it happened already and has passed is not correct imo.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Strange I just read Zechariah 12 and 13. None of the events happened 2000 yrs ago.

The apostle John wrote nearly 2000 years ago that 12:10 was fulfilled at the cross. Do you not believe him?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

However, God never declared that He would reject Israel as a people. Israel’s chosenness was never rooted in their righteousness, but in God’s faithfulness to the patriarchs—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Deuteronomy 7:7–8; Romans 11:28). This choosing is grounded not in the Mosaic covenant but in the Abrahamic covenant, which is unconditional, eternal, and unbreakable. That covenant is the foundation of Israel’s identity as God’s chosen people.

Are you referring to the unconditional blood covenant of Genesis 15:18? That covenant had nothing to do with the people of Israel (other than Christ). It was between God and Abraham, in which God promised to give the land to Christ, not Israel, as Paul made clear in Galatians 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

. Only spiritual circumcision makes one chosen, and that is accomplished only through faith.

Faith is the result of being spiritually circumcised.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Faith is the result of being spiritually circumcised.

I disagree, but that is getting into a completely different matter.

 

[Magenta]

Faith is the result of being spiritually circumcised.

The great controversy: can an incurably wicked heart bring forth the good fruit of faith? Jesus said, "No."

That it was impossible. A bad tree (there are none good) does not bring forth good fruit.

 

[brightfame52]

I disagree, but that is getting into a completely different matter.

okay

 

[HeIsHere]

Faith is the result of being spiritually circumcised.

When we place our faith in the Word of God (and not ourselves), we are born again.

This is what 1 Peter 1:23 teaches.

Likewise, Jesus said the same thing. “While you have the light, BELIEVE in the light, THAT YOU MAY BECOME sons of light.” John 12:36. First BELIEF (or Faith in the Son), … then being born again as a Son of the light.

Likewise Galatians 3:26. “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

First faith in Christ Jesus, then being born again as a Son of God.“

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God," John 1:12

First belief (faith), then the right to become the children of God.

Hence, the preponderance of Scriptural evidence is that faith comes before being born again.
Regeneration/circumcision of the heart does not precede faith.

1 Peter 1:23; John 12:36; Galatians 3:26; Ezekiel 18:31; John 1:12

 

[brightfame52]

When we place our faith in the Word of God (and not ourselves), we are born again.

You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[dkontner]

Excellent passage, here is the complete 'sentence'. It ends with power. Jesus makes us free.

Galatians 5
KJB
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

I think the implication of that is that faith produces more faith through the spirit. All faith is of the spirit, but someone doesn't have to be born from above to learn of the spirit

For the righteousness of God is revealed by [the gospel] out of faith into faith as it is written, The righteous shall live out of faith. Romans 1:17​

 

[brightfame52]

I think the implication of that is that faith produces more faith through the spirit. All faith is of the spirit, but someone doesn't have to be born from above to learn of the spirit

For the righteousness of God is revealed by [the gospel] out of faith into faith as it is written, The righteous shall live out of faith. Romans 1:17​

You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

That's not what Jesus said. Here he says that before coming to Christ (to be born again), everyone first learns of the father. The only way that can happen is through the holy spirit. So the holy spirit teaches the unredeemed of the father, who draws them to Christ to be born from above.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Everyone therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes to me. John 6:45​

 

[Cat545]

Do as you please. Ignore God's word on the subject. That's your right. Perhaps you would prefer to be a Muslim. There are no gay Muslims so you would be right at home in Saudi Arabia.

You do not say where you live. If it is a Western nation, you are almost certainly immersed in a gay tolerant culture. Israel is not distinctive because it is righteous. It has rarely been that since the earliest days after the Exodus. There were brief periods, but mostly a tale of woe. God is working in Israel because that's what He decided to do. Israel is proof that God does as He pleases whatever the plots of the world. You should learn what a graft is. The original stock is not destroyed. And God has restored Israel according to His plan and purpose. Personally, I prefer to be on God's side, not against Him.

God has not replaced Israel, but neither has He exempted them from the need for a Savior. Scripture shows that Israel was chosen as a "light to the nations" to demonstrate God's character, not because they were superior or inherently more worthy of salvation. While we recognize the modern state’s right to exist and defend itself against evil, we must not confuse a secular government with a divine entity; like all nations, it remains subject to God’s standards of justice. Because a "partial hardening" remains until the "refining fire" of the end times, our primary duty is not to put the nation on a pedestal, but to "provoke them to jealousy" by sharing the Gospel.

I support Israel because the nation is separate from the rest of the world. Satan knows this, hence the wide ranging hostility from those Satan has blinded. Israel will pay for their wicked ways once more, during the tribulation. To some extent, they've been paying since the reestablishment of Israel as a nation. This has nothing to do with politics. It's to do with the war between God and Satan.

Derek Prince was right about many Christians having demons. That was not his main emphasis. Certainly he knew more than most about Israel, the foundation of the nation and the consequent struggles. I suppose you know that he was living there when Israel declared independence.

Much of the Western world is about to be taken over by Islam. Europe is already well on the way. Israel is on the front line of the conflict. This is as foretold in God's word. It will be ironic when Israel's enemies in the West discover the truth about Islam. Some Christians will be embarrassed when they find out they were wrong about Israel.

God has not replaced Israel, but neither has He exempted them from the need for a Savior. Scripture shows that Israel was chosen as a "light to the nations" to demonstrate God's character, not because they were superior or inherently more worthy of salvation. While we recognize the modern state’s right to exist and defend itself against evil, we must not confuse a secular government with a divine entity; like all nations, it remains subject to God’s standards of justice. Because a "partial hardening" remains until the "refining fire" of the end times, our primary duty is not to put the nation on a pedestal, but to "provoke them to jealousy" by sharing the Gospel

 

[brightfame52]

That's not what Jesus said. Here he says that before coming to Christ (to be born again), everyone first learns of the father. The only way that can happen is through the holy spirit. So the holy spirit teaches the unredeemed of the father, who draws them to Christ to be born from above.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Everyone therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes to me. John 6:45​

You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[God-fearing]

So with all siad about faith...can you have faith but not believe in jesus? As the jews do.
I think the faithfulness of God carries us through hard times more than our own.
His strength is found in our weaknesses. So I've found it necessary in many things to pray his will be done and be content with the outcome.
Sometimes faith is knowing God knows best.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So with all siad about faith...can you have faith but not believe in jesus? As the jews do.
I think the faithfulness of God carries us through hard times more than our own.
His strength is found in our weaknesses. So I've found it necessary in many things to pray his will be done and be content with the outcome.
Sometimes faith is knowing God knows best.

Everybody has faith in something. Unbelieving Jews say they have faith in the God of Israel, but without faith in Christ it is not according to knowledge, and therefore a vain faith. Nevertheless, God knows who among them are his people.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:1-4​

 

[Gideon300]

God has not replaced Israel, but neither has He exempted them from the need for a Savior. Scripture shows that Israel was chosen as a "light to the nations" to demonstrate God's character, not because they were superior or inherently more worthy of salvation. While we recognize the modern state’s right to exist and defend itself against evil, we must not confuse a secular government with a divine entity; like all nations, it remains subject to God’s standards of justice. Because a "partial hardening" remains until the "refining fire" of the end times, our primary duty is not to put the nation on a pedestal, but to "provoke them to jealousy" by sharing the Gospel.

God has not replaced Israel, but neither has He exempted them from the need for a Savior. Scripture shows that Israel was chosen as a "light to the nations" to demonstrate God's character, not because they were superior or inherently more worthy of salvation. While we recognize the modern state’s right to exist and defend itself against evil, we must not confuse a secular government with a divine entity; like all nations, it remains subject to God’s standards of justice. Because a "partial hardening" remains until the "refining fire" of the end times, our primary duty is not to put the nation on a pedestal, but to "provoke them to jealousy" by sharing the Gospel

God's purpose for Israel has a number of facets. That includes demonstrating His mighty power to bless a nation just because He so chooses. There are around 15 million Jews, half of them in Israel. In spite of constant struggles against a wide array of enemies, Israel is doing just fine. * Million Jews against 400 million Muslims? Easy for God. One of the things that much troubles Muslims is how Israel can defeat so many who are against her. If "allah" is so great, how come Israel still survives and thrives. Israel is number 4 on the list of happiest nations. And that is in spite of the violence of her near neighbours and the constant threat of destruction by Iran.

There is more interest in the gospel now than at any time in Israel's history. God chose Israel because they were not mighty like Egypt or Babylon. That allowed God to withdraw His blessing and for Israel to suffer the consequences of the covenant that included blessing and cursing.

It is also still true that God blesses those who bless Israel. It is easy to trace the decline of the once mighty British empire. Britain betrayed Jews in the very early 1900's. Now Britain is effectively controlled by Muslims. It's navy once ruled the oceans. Now their navy is pathetic, worn out and rusting away. I'm English by birth. I do not enjoy watching the decline and fall of Britain.

 

[Cat545]

God's purpose for Israel has a number of facets. That includes demonstrating His mighty power to bless a nation just because He so chooses. There are around 15 million Jews, half of them in Israel. In spite of constant struggles against a wide array of enemies, Israel is doing just fine. * Million Jews against 400 million Muslims? Easy for God. One of the things that much troubles Muslims is how Israel can defeat so many who are against her. If "allah" is so great, how come Israel still survives and thrives. Israel is number 4 on the list of happiest nations. And that is in spite of the violence of her near neighbours and the constant threat of destruction by Iran.

There is more interest in the gospel now than at any time in Israel's history. God chose Israel because they were not mighty like Egypt or Babylon. That allowed God to withdraw His blessing and for Israel to suffer the consequences of the covenant that included blessing and cursing.

It is also still true that God blesses those who bless Israel. It is easy to trace the decline of the once mighty British empire. Britain betrayed Jews in the very early 1900's. Now Britain is effectively controlled by Muslims. Its navy once ruled the oceans. Now their navy is pathetic, worn out and rusting away. I'm English by birth. I do not enjoy watching the decline and fall of Britain.

Sorry I don’t really know what you’re arguing against.

I never said anything against their military standing or God’s use for them. I was speaking on the salvation aspect and having a healthy distinction between Israel the nation and Israel the government. They are very much not Christian and need a spiritual revival like everywhere else, (which is our duty as Christians to spread the word).

I’m glad Trump supports Israel. The Islam religion is definitely trying to infiltrate here in the states too (look at NYC).