More about Israel.

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I think ThereRoseaLam's verses need to be examined more closely, because I don't think Beekeeper is denying that the OT contains promises of Israel's restoration. The real question is what kind of restoration the prophets promised and how the New Testament identifies its fulfillment.

For example, you quoted Deuteronomy 30:3:


Agreed. But notice what follows immediately in Deuteronomy 30:6:


So the promised restoration is not merely geographical. The gathering is accompanied by heart circumcision and spiritual renewal.

The same thing happens in the Ezekiel passage you cited.

Ezekiel 36:24 speaks of God gathering Israel from the nations and bringing them into their own land, but then verses 25–27 explain what God will do:


Therefore, we shouldn't take the geographical component of these prophecies and separate it from the spiritual realities that God Himself says accompany the restoration.


Ezk. 37

3Then He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones come to life?”

“O Lord GOD,” I replied, “only You know.”

4And He said to me, “Prophesy concerning these bones and tell them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5This is what the Lord GOD says to these bones: I will cause breath to enter you, and you will come to life. 6I will attach tendons to you and make flesh grow upon you and cover you with skin. I will put breath within you so that you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’”




Romans 11

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.

The question is: who are the people to whom those promises ultimately belong according to the New Testament's own interpretation?

And Romans 11 gives the answer, the remnant of Jews. Otherwise you're a proponent of Replacement Theology, which is false and led to the Holocaust.
 
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For example, you quoted Deuteronomy 30:3:

Agreed. But notice what follows immediately in Deuteronomy 30:6:

So the promised restoration is not merely geographical. The gathering is accompanied by heart circumcision and spiritual renewal.

Actually when we read the passage from Deuteronomy 30:1-10 we see from v.1 that it is in the context of the blessing and the curse.
God tells of the wonderful things that He would have done for the nation "IF thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law" (Deuteronomy 30:10).
The fact is that the nation did NOT keep His commandments and did not receive the blessings in that passage.

So lets keep reading through the chapter:
Deuteronomy 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
 
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Ezk. 37

3Then He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones come to life?”

“O Lord GOD,” I replied, “only You know.”

4And He said to me, “Prophesy concerning these bones and tell them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5This is what the Lord GOD says to these bones: I will cause breath to enter you, and you will come to life. 6I will attach tendons to you and make flesh grow upon you and cover you with skin. I will put breath within you so that you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’”




Romans 11

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.

And Romans 11 gives the answer, the remnant of Jews. Otherwise you're a proponent of Replacement Theology, which is false and led to the Holocaust.
ThereRoseaLam, invoking the tragedy of the Holocaust to brand my position as "Replacement Theology" is a serious and inaccurate charge. It completely misrepresents what I have written.

As I stated clearly in my previous post, the Church does not replace Israel. Replacement theology requires a system where one distinct group of people takes the place of another distinct group of people. I reject that completely. My position is that the Church is the clarification of who Israel has always been according to God's electing grace. The Olive Tree is one tree, with one root, and one continuous body of the elect.

Let’s return to the text of Scripture you provided, because both Ezekiel 37 and Romans 11 completely vindicate this position:

1. Ezekiel 37: The Ultimate Picture of Immediate Regeneration

You quote the vision of the Dry Bones. This is a beautiful text, but look closely at what it actually illustrates. It describes a valley of dry, scattered bones that are completely dead.
  • The Condition: The bones cannot lift a finger, make a choice, or cooperate to bring themselves back to life. They are helpless.
  • The Action: God commands the prophet to preach, and God sovereignly causes breath (Ruach—the Spirit) to enter them. God says, "I will put my spirit in you, and ye shall live" (Ezk. 37:14).
This is the Old Testament picture of Immediate Regeneration. God does not look at a political, secular nation and reward them. He takes those who are spiritually dead and monergistically breathes life into them by His Spirit. The "Dry Bones" are not a description of a secular geopolitical state formed by human politics in 1948. It is a description of God sovereignly quickening His elect remnant and making them alive in Christ.

2. Romans 11:26–27: Who is "Jacob"?

You quote Romans 11:26: "The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins."

You then state that this promise belongs to "the remnant of Jews." I completely agree with you! That is exactly my point. The covenant belongs strictly to the elect remnant of Israel, who are preserved by grace.
But notice what the text says the Deliverer does: He takes away their sins.
  • The political, secular nation of Israel today does not have its sins taken away, because they remain in an active rejection of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
  • Paul explicitly states in Romans 11:5, "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
The "Jacob" whose sins are taken away is the elect remnant of natural Israel, who, along with the wild branches (Gentiles) grafted into that exact same tree, form the unified Israel of God.

The Real Distinction

The issue is not "Replacement Theology." The issue is whether God’s covenant promises are fulfilled in a physical bloodline or a spiritual election.

If the promises apply to a physical nation regardless of faith, then God is covenanting with people who die in their sins. But if the promises apply to the remnant according to the election of grace, then Ezekiel 37 and Romans 11 make perfect sense. God sovereignly breathes life into the dry bones of His elect, removes ungodliness from them, takes away their sins, and gathers them into His eternal kingdom.

My position doesn't erase ethnic Jews; it honors the true, believing remnant of Israel by refusing to confuse them with a secular, political government. Amen!


 
Praise God, the father, son and holy spirit.

Whoever rejects Jesus, please repent and you still have chance. God is loving and righteous.

Turn away from paganism and accept Jesus as Lord and savior.

Unless Jesus is one's Lord, He can't be one's savior. Whoever rejects Jesus is not saved. From beginning to end, same God YHVH. Whoever rejects Jesus, rejects YHVH. The father and the son are one.
 
In OT, no one is saved merely by their ethnic blood. They are saved by their faith to look forward to messiah, who takes away their iniquity. Psalm, Isaiah, Genesis....

All the bull and lamb 🐑 is foreshadow of Jesus, who take away sins.

Same in NT, no one is saved by their ethnicity. Jesus is the way, truth, and life.

In future to come, still the same.

God never change.
 
Regarding the eternal promises, you said they belong to Abraham’s “seed,” which you define as those who are in Christ. I agree that everyone in Jesus shares in the eternal blessings. But I want to make sure I understand you correctly: you are including ethnic Jews who put their trust in their Messiah Jesus, yes? Because Scripture presents Abraham’s seed in more than one aspect—Christ Himself, and also Abraham’s physical descendants.

Of course faithful Jews are included in the Abrahamic covenant.
National Israel is a different matter however, because it is entirely bound to the Mosaic covenant

.
Where I need further clarity is your statement that Old Testament believers who lived in Canaan now fulfill the everlasting land promise by living in the heavenly promised land. That seems to imply that the earthly land is no longer necessary. If that is what you mean, I would encourage you to reconsider that conclusion in light of your own acknowledgment that the final hope for God’s people is not heaven, but the new earth, where heaven comes down.

If I gave the impression that I do not think the conclusion of hope is in the kingdom of heaven, that is a pity.
I am not even convinced that the "new earth" is on the vibrational frequency that we now call physical.

If the final destination is earthly, then the physical land remains part of God’s plan. When God told Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the land would be theirs, He was speaking of actual, physical territory—not a heavenly metaphor. And while Israel did break the Mosaic covenant, Scripture repeatedly shows that their discipline is temporary, not permanent. Their return to the land in our own time is a powerful reminder of that.

The final destination is not earthly, and the Bible does contain metaphor.
I have already noticed that you are uncomfortable with that, and that is the reason I have been not been attempting to explain some prophesies.
There are people who either through family tradition or through non-acceptance of Christ's fulfillment of the law, will voluntarily bound themself to the Mosaic covenant and incorporate modern Israel in that understanding, yet by confirming them in that understanding, we also confirm them in unbelief.
If we teach that the hope is bound to an eternal earthly Jerusalem we confirm them in eternal unbelief, outside of the kingdom of heaven.
There are no second chances with the Mosaic covenant: Exodus 23:21 "Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.",
but God has given a far greater SPIRITUAL hope to His people.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
 
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Actually when we read the passage from Deuteronomy 30:1-10 we see from v.1 that it is in the context of the blessing and the curse.
God tells of the wonderful things that He would have done for the nation "IF thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law" (Deuteronomy 30:10).
The fact is that the nation did NOT keep His commandments and did not receive the blessings in that passage.

So lets keep reading through the chapter:
Deuteronomy 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional and everlasting.
 
ThereRoseaLam, invoking the tragedy of the Holocaust to brand my position as "Replacement Theology" is a serious and inaccurate charge. It completely misrepresents what I have written.

Brightfame apparently does not read or understand well. ThereRoseaLamb, stop the name calling pls, actually said "And Romans 11 gives the answer, the remnant of Jews. Otherwise (if you don't believe) you're a proponent of Replacement Theology, which is false and led to the Holocaust."






As I stated clearly in my previous post, the Church does not replace Israel.

Ok then why did you say we are the new Jews (Israel)?

2. Romans 11:26–27: Who is "Jacob"?

You quote Romans 11:26: "The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins."

You then state that this promise belongs to "the remnant of Jews." I completely agree with you! That is exactly my point. The covenant belongs strictly to the elect remnant of Israel, who are preserved by grace.
But notice what the text says the Deliverer does: He takes away their sins.
  • The political, secular nation of Israel today does not have its sins taken away, because they remain in an active rejection of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
  • Paul explicitly states in Romans 11:5, "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace

My position doesn't erase ethnic Jews; it honors the true, believing remnant of Israel by refusing to confuse them with a secular, political government. Amen!



The gov't is secular now, but it won't be. When the anti-Christ comes and then breaks trust with the Jews they will recognize their Messiah. Right now they are the dry bones coming together.
 
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Whoever rejects Jesus

Who are you talking about?



Turn away from paganism and accept Jesus as Lord and savior.Unless Jesus is one's Lord, He can't be one's savior. Whoever rejects Jesus is not saved. From beginning to end, same God YHVH. Whoever rejects Jesus, rejects YHVH. The father and the son are one.

Again, who are you talking about?
 
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In OT, no one is saved merely by their ethnic blood. They are saved by their faith to look forward to messiah, who takes away their iniquity. Psalm, Isaiah, Genesis....

All the bull and lamb 🐑 is foreshadow of Jesus, who take away sins.

Same in NT, no one is saved by their ethnicity. Jesus is the way, truth, and life.

In future to come, still the same.

God never change.

No one has said anything different!! Stop putting words in peoples mouths. No one has said you are saved any other way but through Jesus alone!!
 
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