Yes, absolutely. Jesus says that, we should listen.
What she said has no bearing on what we are talking about.
More about Israel.
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What she said has no bearing on what we are talking about.
So?
The crowd who yelled crucify Jesus, were also blinded.
The crowd who stoned Stephen, were also blinded.
....
Jesus already give us light, life, truth. Those who believe in Jesus are no more blinded.
No more stoning Stephen, no more yelling crucify Jesus......
So we aren't going by your opinion, we are going by what the Word of God says. You all scream that Israel is a secular country, the same all countries, but you scream about Israel when the Bible tells us they are blinded and why they are blinded and that there will be a time they are no longer blinded. You don't know the Scriptures or you wouldn't be making these arguments.
You are right. Blood and ethnicity are not prerequisites or qualifications for salvation.
So let's look at God's promises to Israel in a different way because he did promise to save them. The oracles of God say that he will save ethnic/physical Israel. And perhaps we forget or don't fully understand how that will happen.
In order to see how this will happen, we first need to explain salvation in terms of "circumcision of the heart." Paul holds two truths together without contradiction: in Christ there is neither circumcision nor uncircumcision, and yet God circumcises the hearts of those He saves. In Galatians 5:6 and 6:15, Paul insists that physical circumcision has no spiritual value—what matters is “faith working through love” and becoming a “new creation.” Likewise, in Colossians 2:11 he says believers have already received a “circumcision made without hands,” a spiritual operation performed by Christ Himself. This aligns with the Old Testament promise that God would one day circumcise the hearts of His people (Deuteronomy 30:6), enabling them to love Him fully. Paul’s point is that ethnic or ritual distinctions no longer define God’s people, but the inward work of God does. Those who are in Christare marked not by a physical sign but by a transformed heart—cut free from sin’s dominion and made responsive to God’s will.
When Moses promises in Deuteronomy 30:6 that God will circumcise the hearts of Israel, he is describing the same inward, Spirit‑worked transformation Paul later identifies in his teaching. In Deuteronomy, the promise is given to the physical family line of Israel, assuring them that God Himself will one day remove the hardness of their hearts so they can love Him fully and obey Him faithfully. Paul’s teaching does not cancel that promise; it confirms it. When Paul says that God circumcises the hearts of those who are in Christ (Colossians 2:11; Romans 2:28–29), he is showing that the long‑awaited heart‑circumcision has begun—first in the remnant of Israel who believe, and then extended to the nations who join Israel’s Messiah. God has not abandoned His ancient pledge; He is keeping it. The spiritual circumcision Paul describes is the very fulfillment of what Moses foresaw: God creating a people—Israel and the nations together—whose hearts are cut free from sin and made alive to love Him.
They aren't going to be saved differently that we are. Same God, same process, same outcome and all on the basis of the cross.
Saul was in the same crowd cheering for stoning Stephen, should we all be like Saul?
You are a wonderful person to talk to.
Praise God for calm, peaceful people like you !!!
So he and I are saying the same thing yet you agree with him and not me. Explanation...?
Love to continue civil discussions.
Though we might not agree on everything!
Peace.
His people are those who believe, both in the OT and NT.
Critical context is always missing when these promises are referenced.
Deuteronomy 30:1-6
And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Order of operation for the Promise:
1. Israel is cursed and scattered into the nations.
2. Israel returns to the Almighty will their whole hearts.
3. The Almighty regathers them from the nations, back to the land.
4. The Almighty circumcises their hearts.
The Promise Boiled down:
1. Curse & Scattering
2. Whole-heart Obedience
3. Regathering & Returning
4. Spiritual Circumcision
The promise is not "He will return them to the land and circumcise their hearts".
The promise is "WHEN they turn back to Him with their whole hearts while scattered, THEN He will return them to the land and circumcise their hearts."
And so the simple and obvious question is: have those who claim to be Israel turned back to obedience with their whole hearts? Regardless of covenant, the answer is no. They don't obey the commandments, and they don't believe in the Messiah. So then if we claim to believe that the promises of the Almighty are true, then we must reconcile whether what we're currently seeing over there is truely fulfillment of those promises...or is it a lie from satan's counterfeits?
The events are concurrent. They happen at the same time. That is, when God circumcises their hearts, they will obey. As to whether we can say that promise is being fulfilled right now, we can't know what is in a person's heart.
The correct order is believers (those who have exercised faith in Christ Jesus) have their heart's circumcised.
We are commanded not to add to or take away from the words we're given. Where are they supposed to be when they choose to obey with their whole heart, according to the words the Almighty gave us in Deut 30:1-6? It's found in the first two verses of the chapter.
Yes, we can.
Jeremiah 17:10
I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings
The Almighty directly ties a person's actions to the condition of their heart.
Proverbs 4:23
Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.
One's actions reveal what's in one's heart.
So, we can look at their actions and know exactly what's in their hearts. Do they have a heart to obey the Almighty's commandments, or a heart to obey the Messiah, or a greedy, sinful heart?
- Do they murder the innocent? Yes.
- Have they been caught lying constantly? Yes.
- Do they steal land? Yes.
- Do they covet their neighbor's stuff? Yes.
These are just four of the commandments they violate. No need to wonder what's in their hearts. This evidence is on display for the world to witness.
This isn't whole-heart obedience.
Most importantly, do they openly reject Jesus?
Do they openly call Jesus a liar?
It is, but it was made to Abraham, not to national Israel.
People forget that Abraham was also the father of many Gentile nations through his second wife.
Like the children of Israel, none will be counted as his seed if they do not share his faith.
The seed of Abraham are in Christ, and the realization of his everlasting promise is in the kingdom of heaven.
Maybe, maybe not.
The issue isn’t the order of salvation but the identity of the saved. Scripture consistently teaches that those whom God chooses, sanctifies, and sets apart as His own will inevitably believe, receive the Spirit, and have circumcised hearts. The decisive factor is not the timing of regeneration or faith but God’s act of consecration. All whom God declares holy—His saints—will trust Him, love Him, and persevere because the Spirit has been given to them as the defining mark of their belonging to Him.
I agree with you. They will choose to obey. But what makes the difference between now and then? The prophets mark a time when God will remove a heart of stone from them and give them a heart of flesh. This is not a multitude of random events spread out over Jewish history. This is a singular event that takes place at just the right time according to God's plan.
Exactly. God will change the conditions of their hearts and they will act appropriately. Simple.
Totally agree, though some acts are more obviously indicative of a love and fear of God than others.
I can't. I don't live in Israel.
Amen, because we know that without faith in the Messiah, no one can receive the Holy Spirit to be compelled to obey. Obedience isn't possible without faith in Him.
However, oftentimes, the counter-argument made is that Israel's time to believe in the Messiah is not yet; that they're still in judgment and thus sinful. But that's why I make a point of mentioning obedience to the commandments: if they're not under the Messiah's new covenant, then Israel is still under Moses', and they don't even obey that one... and, in fact, it was violating that covenant that expelled them from the land and scattered them to the four winds. So the Almighty wouldn't regather them while still violating the terms of that covenant because it would make Him a liar (heaven forbid).
The only conclusion is they're not the people to whom the promise was made.