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Music in Church?
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wrong sir.you have shown the scripture of the instruments they used in their times never once did it say it was commanded that those are the only types of instrument to use and that make the Lord happy. we live in 21st century not then
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Quake10
Guest
Everyone, please do not be so mean to each other. Though i disagree with some here, im not gonna just tell them to go away. God is not pleased when we are mean to each other. Even with what i said earlier, i meant it, not to be mean, but as a question. We are Christians we are to act like it
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1still_waters
Guest
God wants his will done on Earth as it is in heaven. John saw heaven, he saw harps with singing.
Connect ye ole dots boys n girls.
If you sing to me I authorize you to use any instrument you wish, if I like it and know he song I will sing with you, but if you wish to worship my Lord with me, we put the instruments down, stop singing to me, and we sing to Him.
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MsLimpet
Guest
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The_highwayman
Guest
then stop making his commandments out to be the gospel because they are not the gospel and please show me the NT verse that states instruments are banned.
No, it was the gospel Paul preached, not your memo:
Gal 1:8 (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
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MsLimpet
Guest
I did not make Paul's commandments. Those are your words...show me where it says that it is authorized in the NT that they are allowed.
God wants his will done on Earth as it is in heaven. John saw heaven, he saw harps with singing.
Connect ye ole dots boys n girls.
can you show me a NT justification for playing connect-the-dots?
I thought we - me and Jesus were singing to you, but ultimately for His glory as He did die to save us from our sins and will use any method to save people to Himself. I am sure people have been saved going to music programs with instruments played. This is to God's glory - why make everything so difficult?
Ok! Let's take a stab at it.
"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16
So the New Testament says to use PSALMS, right??
So going to the actual psalms, we find that using instruments is actually an INSTRUCTION, and in Hebrew, these headings are actually the first verse of the psalm. It is English that for some reason puts the heading into an instruction, rather than being part of the Psalm.
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of David Psalm 4
To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David. Psalm 5,
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments; according to The Sheminith. A Psalm of David. Psalm 6
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David, when the Ziphites went and told Saul, “Is not David hiding among us?” Psalm 54
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David. Psalm 55
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Psalm 61
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song. Psalm 67
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of Asaph. A Song Psalm 76
These are the instructions of what you are supposed to do in a psalm! Your church obviously fails to define PSALM correctly! No one ever has posts here about how we are NOT to obey the 10 commandments, because they are Old Testament. So why do you want to abandon what the Bible says about using instruments, when it is NOT prohibited in either New or Old Testament?? The instruction to use the Psalms was understood by the congregations Paul wrote to, to use instruments. Or he would have just said "sing" and nothing about Psalms!
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Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁpsalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.
HELPS Word-studies
5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements.]
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from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
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NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Originfrom psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
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"Many psalms (116 of the 150) have individual superscriptions (titles), ranging from lengthy comments to a single word. Over a third appear to be musical directions, addressed to the "leader" or "choirmaster," including such statements as "with stringed instruments" and "according to lilies." Others appear to be references to types of musical composition, such as "A psalm" and "Song," or directions regarding the occasion for using the psalm ("On the dedication of the temple," "For the memorial of"
Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So our doctrine regarding instrumental music is contained in two verses?
Now when I read these verses in the King James - Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts.
When I teach (share) the word, or admonish someone I don't do it with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs - Could I possibly use a video while I was teaching, sharing or admonishing - I suppose I could. Now - singing with grace in your hearts - that to me means to sing in my mind, in my heart - soooo - do we actually sing aloud or in our hearts? Seriously . .
Since you are taking it to say "NO instruments" - it is actually an argument from "silence" - for there is nothing saying to use instruments or not use instruments - works either way.
Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
So we could say that we should not sing out loud but only to ourselves and in our hearts.
indeed
I also wish to say that in my replies I hope it wasn't seen as rude or mean I simply am very serious about this is all. the issue with the forums is their is no tone in your voice lol
God wants his will done on Earth as it is in heaven. John saw heaven, he saw harps with singing.
Connect ye ole dots boys n girls.
I find it difficult to equate how a worship scene in heaven in any way equates to how we are instructed to worship in the Church. The will of God that Jesus refers to in this prayer is directly related to the establishment of the Kingdom. This is the context in which he employes it, not to the worship in the assembly.
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JesusistheChrist
Guest
You know, I said that I was leaving and all, but some things just need to be responded to...
First of all, YOU HYPOCRITES, I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar (no, I'm not encouraging gambling, but just making a point) that IN A TIME OF TROUBLE YOU NON-INSTRUMENTAL OLD TESTAMENT PSALMS AVOIDERS WILL BE THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BE RECITING THE OLD TESTAMENT PSALMS! "Are YOU living in the OT or NT"?
Sorry, I hope that I didn't wake anybody out of their slumber. Well, actually, I hope that I awoke quite a few of you.
Secondly, contrary to popular erroneous opinion, there are many things which have carried over from the Old Testament to the New Testament and were even cited to New Testament saints as "proof texts" FOR NEW TESTAMENT DOCTRINE, so this whole "OT vs. NT" comparison is at least partly RIDICULOUS. For example, when Peter wrote...
I Peter chapter 1
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[14] As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
..."was he living in the OT or the NT?"
What's this?!?
Peter cited LEVITICUS 11:44-45, 19:2, 20:7 and 26 TO CHRISTIANS?!?
HERETIC!!!
LET'S HIT HIM OVER THE HEAD WITH A "ZITHER", THROW HIM OUT OF THE CHURCH AND BURN HIS WRITINGS!!!
Okay, a bit overdramatic...but deliberately and for a purpose.
What about Paul?
Ephesians chapter 6
[1] Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
[2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise):
[3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Oh, my!
Did Paul really cite Exodus 20:12 and/or Deuteronomy 5:16 FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT MOSAIC LAW to New Testament Christians at THE CHURCH at Ephesus as "proof texts" for New Testament doctrine?
Well, as a matter of fact, he did.
There you have it...Christianity is done...according to the nonsensical beliefs of some posters here, that is.
if you really can't see any difference between crack cocaine and a lute then i am glad you don't bring what you assume is a "lute" with you to worship.
but maybe you should get rid of whatever it is you are calling "guitars."
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1still_waters
Guest
I think some may shake their head no to music in church no matter how good case you make. Ideological blinders hold the head in that position.
I apologize if I came across as sounding or being mean - my intent was to add humor as it has gotten serious and I was just trying to lighten things up a bit. God loves music as the angels sing and there are harps and probably instruments that we don't even know about being played in heaven. I will stop with the levity and let you guys continue to go at it as most times people don't listen to what you are writing anyway. Blond out.