Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[Mitspa]

They call them legalist because they do not want the law. They just want the love gospel. If they look at the law they will see the first four commandments show how to love God, while the next six show how to love others.

God brought Israel out of bondage by a mighty hand before He gave His law, so Israel should have kept God's law out of love and gratitude. It is no different with us, God has delivered us out of the bondage of sin by a mighty hand and out of love and gratitude to God we should want to keep His law.

Jesus followed the same pattern while on earth, first He delivered people after He said "Go and sin no more".

No because we believe the bible.... and its clear that legalism only promotes hypocrisy...not godliness!

It is grace that teaches godliness...not the law of moses.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation 12:17 New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

PS 119

41 Let your loving kindness also come to me, Yahweh, your salvation, according to your word.

42 So I will have an answer for him who reproaches me, for I trust in your word.

43 Don't snatch the word of truth out of my mouth, for I put my hope in your ordinances.

44 So I will obey your law continually, forever and ever.

45 I will walk in liberty, for I have sought your precepts.

46 I will also speak of your statutes before kings, and will not be disappointed.

47 I will delight myself in your commandments, because I love them.

48 I reach out my hands for your commandments, which I love. I will meditate on your statutes.

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

SO do you imply that because works according to Yah do not make us fit to enter the kingdom that we ignore His Instructions? or make up our own set with our imagination? No we through the Faith uphold the Law.

We are not righteous by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahsua showed the intent or ultimate result of keeping the Law of the Creator.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

 

[gotime]

someone asked why would we need the 10 commandments if the law is written on our hearts.

The 10 commandments show if it is on the heart or not. If you read them and you are not keeping them then they are not on your heart.

But the reason is the same for the Old Covenant, the law was meant to be on their heart also but God wrote them down for them still.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ecclesiastes 1:9, "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun."

Zechariah 7:12, "Yes, they made their hearts as hard as stone, that they could not hear the Law, and the words which YHWH of hosts had sent by his Spirit by the former prophets. Therefore great wrath came from YHWH of hosts."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

the carnal mind can not stand the righteous Instructions of the Creator;


Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

PS 119

49 Remember your word to your servant, because you gave me hope.

50 This is my comfort in my affliction, for your word has revived me.

51 The arrogant mock me excessively, but I don't swerve from your law.

52 I remember your ordinances of old, Yahweh, and have comforted myself.

53 Indignation has taken hold on me, because of the wicked who forsake your law.

54 Your statutes have been my songs, in the house where I live.


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of Yah?"
​

 

[Hizikyah]

someone asked why would we need the 10 commandments if the law is written on our hearts.

The 10 commandments show if it is on the heart or not. If you read them and you are not keeping them then they are not on your heart.

But the reason is the same for the Old Covenant, the law was meant to be on their heart also but God wrote them down for them still.

Yes we test our hearts against His word (Spirit)

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."


James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

But the reason is the same for the Old Covenant, the law was meant to be on their heart also but God wrote them down for them still.

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."

Yeremyah 9:21-25, "For death has come through our windows, and has entered our palaces, cutting of fthe children from the public squares, and the young men from the streets. Speak, saying; This is what Yahweh says: Even the carcasses of men will fall like refuse on the open field; like sheaves of grain behind the reaper, which no one will gather. This is what Yahweh says: Let not the wise glory in their wisdom, let not the mighty glory in their power, let not the rich glory in their riches; But let those who glory, glorify in this--that he understands and knows Me, that I am Yahweh Who exercises lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth; for in this I delight, says Yahweh. Behold, the days come, says Yahweh: that I will punish all those who are circumcised only in their foreskins."

 

[Laodicea]

No because we believe the bible.... and its clear that legalism only promotes hypocrisy...not godliness!

It is grace that teaches godliness...not the law of moses.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Obedience to God out of love and gratitude which I showed in my post is not legalism. Legalism is obedience for salvation. Many today just want the love gospel not His law not knowing that without His law we would have no need for grace.

 

[michael56]

someone asked why would we need the 10 commandments if the law is written on our hearts.

The 10 commandments show if it is on the heart or not. If you read them and you are not keeping them then they are not on your heart.

If you have a conscience at the thought of stealing, coveting, lusting, etc, if you know in your heart those things are sinful, you know the law God requires you to keep is in your heart and on your mind. That is the proof, you do not need to read the literal word of commandments to know that

 

[Hizikyah]

The perfect Law of liberty empowered by YHWH sets me free from the ways of the world with it's deceptions, it makes me wise to see through the lies, it gives me a path in the time of uncertainty, a lamp before my feet when there is darkness and the path is not visible, it gives me a righteous standard to test the desires of my heart against, for it is the Law that governs all existence, all the evil angels (demons) and satan will have to answer to this Law. Those without it will perish and those in it will be judged by it.

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”


James 2:8-26, "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what goodb is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that Yah is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed Yah, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of Yah. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

 

[Hizikyah]

Lets be honest, most have no problem with 9 of the 10 Commandments, but to ignore the 4th Commandment, all 10 have to be trivialized and over spirituallized into what ever one's heart wants.

If we are not, If I am not in line with what is written, as written in it's true intent, the Spirit of YHWH is not with me, if I am in line with what is written, as written in it's true intent, the n the Spirit of YHWH is with me.

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

 

[gotime]

If you have a conscience at the thought of stealing, coveting, lusting, etc, if you know in your heart those things are sinful, you know the law God requires you to keep is in your heart and on your mind. That is the proof, you do not need to read the literal word of commandments to know that

you forget the natural heart,

Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

we can not trust our hearts, so if that is so then how can we know our heart unless we have a standard to measure it by outside of ourselves?

The law is that standard. Thus by looking at the law we can have a solid point on which to know if we are of God or not. Jesus was a living example of the law His heart was in line with the law and He kept all 10 commandments perfectly.

Deu 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

Gods law shows us what is in our heart.

 

[michael56]

you forget the natural heart,

Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

we can not trust our hearts, so if that is so then how can we know our heart unless we have a standard to measure it by outside of ourselves?

The law is that standard. Thus by looking at the law we can have a solid point on which to know if we are of God or not. Jesus was a living example of the law His heart was in line with the law and He kept all 10 commandments perfectly.

Deu 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

Gods law shows us what is in our heart.

this makes no sense. Only through the knowledge of God's laws can you be conscious of your sin. If you have heartfelt conviction of your sin without having read the literal words of the ten commandments, the knowledge of how God wants you to live has been placed within you. Nothing to do with a deceitful heart.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 7:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

If you think that it is your flesh and carnal mind that keeps commandments you haven't come to know the law.

There would be no reason for Christ or the Holy Spirit if working at the law in our flesh is what is required. We would just be shown the law and told, do this.

Instead, there is the gospel of Christ. There is a reason for Christ. There is a reason for the Holy Spirit.

 

[gotime]

this makes no sense. Only through the knowledge of God's laws can you be conscious of your sin. If you have heartfelt conviction of your sin without having read the literal words of the ten commandments, the knowledge of how God wants you to live has been placed within you. Nothing to do with a deceitful heart.

maybe think about it first.

Our natural heart is deceitful above all things. so can you trust that heart? No.

So when you think that you are changed How can you know that your evil heart is not deceiving you into thinking your OK, how can you know for sure?

The only way is to have a standard outside of yourself that comes from a pure and good source.

God gave us the 10 commandments so that no one would be deceived In fact he gave them because we were being deceived.

You know that people who still have evil hearts don't steal or kill etc. They will say to you I'm a good person so If God is real Ill be ok. But they are deceived by their own hearts

You agree with me more than your realize.

For example:

How do you know that you need a messiah? The law right?

How does the law show you your need of saving?

did you know before the law that you needed saving? no but when the law came sin was seen as it is.

So if what you say is true none of this makes sense.

God did not need to give the law to make us aware of sin, He just needed to write it on our hearts and then hey presto.

I conclude that the law is indeed needed because our hearts are deceitful in the natural man. But then how do I know If I have truly come to Christ? If my heart is truly converted?

The law again is the solid standard outside of myself so that I can look at it and not be deceived by my own heart. For when I look I am either keeping it or not, and no matter what I think of myself Gods pure standard is the true standard of good and evil.

By reading it and looking to it I bypass my heart and look at truth.

If you go simply by your own heart assuming it is renewed then you risk being deceived. take a look at the law and you will see if you are renewed or not.

 

[Laodicea]

this makes no sense. Only through the knowledge of God's laws can you be conscious of your sin. If you have heartfelt conviction of your sin without having read the literal words of the ten commandments, the knowledge of how God wants you to live has been placed within you. Nothing to do with a deceitful heart.

Romans 7:7 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3:20 KJV
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[Mitspa]

you forget the natural heart,

Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

we can not trust our hearts, so if that is so then how can we know our heart unless we have a standard to measure it by outside of ourselves?

The law is that standard. Thus by looking at the law we can have a solid point on which to know if we are of God or not. Jesus was a living example of the law His heart was in line with the law and He kept all 10 commandments perfectly.

Deu 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

Gods law shows us what is in our heart.

You forgot that those who are born-again have a NEW heart!

 

[Mitspa]

Obedience to God out of love and gratitude which I showed in my post is not legalism. Legalism is obedience for salvation. Many today just want the love gospel not His law not knowing that without His law we would have no need for grace.

No faith and love is obedience ... we don't go back to legalism and call it love... We don't turn from grace back to the law and call that faith. And the gospel is the goodnews and its the goodness of God that leads to repentance...not legalism. And yes the law was to bring us to Christ and be justified by faith...but after faith is come we are delivered from the law.

 

[Mitspa]

someone asked why would we need the 10 commandments if the law is written on our hearts.

The 10 commandments show if it is on the heart or not. If you read them and you are not keeping them then they are not on your heart.

But the reason is the same for the Old Covenant, the law was meant to be on their heart also but God wrote them down for them still.

No...love proves if you have the law written on your heart...legalism proves your not walking in love. In fact your in the flesh!

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Jeff_56]

You forgot that those who are born-again have a NEW heart!

WOH togrof ? and does the new heart joyously delight in torah as yahshua did and does, or

wickedly sin ?