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Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?
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L
Laodicea
Guest
Yes we keep the law because we love God, it is mentioned in the ten commandments also Jesus said it.
[SUP]Exodus 20:6
6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
John 14:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The law is not legalism, the Bible says the law is good.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Wrong! We love God because He first loved us....by His Spirit we keep the first commandment in love.
L
Laodicea
Guest
Of course He first loved us, if He did not we would not be able to love Him. The Bible teaches that like begats like, to have people love God must first come from someone who shows love.
I said we keep the commandments because we love God which is not wrong, but you look as though you want to be right so you tell me I am wrong, must a person always explain every detail in every post?
yahweh the creator of all things and the giver or all life and the giver of every good gift,
spoke from heaven
a few words
and
a few people listen.
the rest don't.
that's exactly what he said would happen. he shows mercy on those who listen.
he hardens the heart of those who don't.
no one can change that.
spoke from heaven
a few words
and
a few people listen.
the rest don't.
that's exactly what he said would happen. he shows mercy on those who listen.
he hardens the heart of those who don't.
no one can change that.
i am sorry everyone. i come back one day later and there are now 22 more pages in this topic which i am not going to read, So if anyone has asked me a question re-ask it again. Again sorry.
^i^
^i^
M
Mitspa
Guest
No the New Testament teaches that love fulfills all the law...and we only know the love of God through Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God that sheds His love abroad in our hearts.... Its also clearly teaches that legalism does not keep the law...so of course obedience is love, not legalism.
Thought I'd just comment on that part. The new is not the same as the old. The promises of the old were based on obedience, rewarded with blessings for total obedience, or answered with curse for disobedience. The blessing (promise of the Spirit) they needed had to come by obedience to the letter of the law, which was only possible through faith, since it is true of Romans 3:22-23 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [SUP]23 [/SUP] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
They reaped curses all their time on earth, becoming a curse among all witnesses, causing Gentiles to blaspheme God because of their sins. Then when that which was promised came, they rejected their hope of Christ, soon exiled for nearly two millennia.
The New Covenant carries no curse of the law for those living by faith in Christ, but blessing only in Christ, by his obedience, through our faith. Jesus took the curse of the law upon himself. The curses mounted up until they were destroyed.
I don't believe Israel could never keep the Torah. They had to have succeeded from time to time, because they were nationally blessed, especially with Joshua in charge. But just one man in the camp (Korah) came sinning, causing the whole nation to suffer significantly under Moses. King David is an example of one man sinning to curse the nation, by conducting a census, causing the deaths of many, that being a mighty curse. But even if the nation had never failed to do that, none would have been "born again" until God sent their Promise he made to Abraham. Ideally such a blessed nation would have welcomed their Messiah, then entered into the true rest of God.
They didn't do that enough. It required a lifelong commitment to God, generation to generation.
Now, which nation on earth could possibly do that? Not even present day Israel, which is mostly a politically based nation, "Jews" among Jews, carnal among orthodox, sin everywhere "in the camp", trodden over by many unbelievers, even many "Jews" ready to give it all up to the Canaanites (renamed "Palestinian" by the Romans).
What nation could be pure, without sin? None. All have sinned. Jesus is the only answer.
Rather than go over your post line by line I will precise it a bit:
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
The above is not speaking of the old covenant but the new.
Prosperity After Turning to the Lord
30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, [SUP]3 [/SUP]then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[SUP][a][/SUP] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.'
Deut30:6
This happens after the exile, when the Jews return to their own land and bless them there. Therefore, that did not happen under the old covenant. Under that covenant, as you quoted yesterday, God told moses to tell the people to circumcise their hearts, under the new covenant God WILL do it.
Also, I believe yesterday you agreed none under the old covenant could attain Heaven without Christ's death at Calvary. Why not? If they could have obeyed the WHOLE law, they could have attained Heaven under a righteousness of obedience to the law couldn't they?
God would consider it their righteousness, however NONE agttained to true righteousness for they could not perfectly obey. Hence David's words:
Do not bring your servant into judgement for none is righteous before you Psalms 143:2
John 8:32
Yes, whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. We all sin, but the son has set us free. We are no longer slves but adopted into the family of God because Jesus died for our sins. You need to understand the context here:
But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26
As we have discussed perfection much and whether a Christian can reach sinless perfection it is pointless to keep rehashing an old debate, however, I will just quote one verse concerning this:
Not that I have already obtained all this or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me
Phil 3:12
Paul had not reached the stage of sinless perfection when he wrote Philipians. I do not profess to have reached a stage Paul hadn't reached. I don't say this unkindly. But head theology may convince a person they can be perfectly sinless, but not spiritual reality. To believe you can be sinless, is to look at the literal letter of the law without understanding what that entails.
Thank you for reading the pages and for your comments
God Bless
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Is Paul our example? or is Jesus?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John (Yahchanan) 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."
Yahchanan (John) 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John (Yahchanan) 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."
Yahchanan (John) 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
I repeat is Paul our example or Christ?
I aspire to submit my life to Christ and let Him finish the work He has started.
Tell me, If I am dead and Christ is alive then how perfect can Christ be?
See for me the question of what I can do has nothing to do with this.
The Question is what can Jesus do?
When I hear someone say you can't overcome every sin, and that same person says salvation is all the work of God, then I hear them saying Jesus' Grace is not sufficient and His Power is not enough.
I don't agree, what Jesus did at the cross is more than powerful enough.
If our old man of sin is dead and Christ lives in you then the question is how can He fail? He can't He already lived a life on earth without sin.
But I get His resurrected victorious life in me He did not fail the first time He will not fail the second.
The Question is what can Jesus do?
When I hear someone say you can't overcome every sin, and that same person says salvation is all the work of God, then I hear them saying Jesus' Grace is not sufficient and His Power is not enough.
I don't agree, what Jesus did at the cross is more than powerful enough.
If our old man of sin is dead and Christ lives in you then the question is how can He fail? He can't He already lived a life on earth without sin.
But I get His resurrected victorious life in me He did not fail the first time He will not fail the second.
To put it another way then. You believe you can-or will be more submissive to what Christ can do in you than was the Apostle Paul
This is head theology from reading the literal word, not spiritual reality.
A minister of 50 years stated:
''If we all followed the Holy Spirit's leading every moment of our lives we would never sin-the reality of which escapes us all.''
What you write may sound wonderful, but in practise it is not the reality
By the way Paul was talking about the resurrection:
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Paul is talking about the endgame I have not made it to the end.
See Paul understood something about living with Christ, it was daily. perfection is not not sinning for a day or a week or a year.
For what if a man in Christ sins not for a year and then takes His eyes of of Jesus. then that man will fall into sin again.
Paul understood that not sinning for a day or a year is not perfection, Perfection is walking in Christ till the end game.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Jesus did not sin but he was perfect when he reached the endgame as it is written:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Even If you were to stop sinning right now totally you will not be perfect until the resurrection. For perfection is maintaining that connection with Jesus though suffering till the end.
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Paul is talking about the endgame I have not made it to the end.
See Paul understood something about living with Christ, it was daily. perfection is not not sinning for a day or a week or a year.
For what if a man in Christ sins not for a year and then takes His eyes of of Jesus. then that man will fall into sin again.
Paul understood that not sinning for a day or a year is not perfection, Perfection is walking in Christ till the end game.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Jesus did not sin but he was perfect when he reached the endgame as it is written:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Even If you were to stop sinning right now totally you will not be perfect until the resurrection. For perfection is maintaining that connection with Jesus though suffering till the end.
If someone followed the holy Spirit all the time I dont think they would sin, it's only when we don't focus on/listen to Him that we sin of our own lust.
James 1 New American Standard Bible
12Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
James 1 New American Standard Bible
12Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
Please just state if you believe you are perfect in your flesh. The answer is yes or no, I will leave it at that. If the answer is no, I imagine you believe you have not yet learnt to fully submit yourself to God and die to self