True, it only affects fellowshipWhat is so hard ti understand - once saved sin no longer affects salvation.
Yet once saved sin still holds the power of bondage, and will be judged and rewarded/punished accordingly?
Hey Peaceful,. It really isn't a matter of opinion when it comes to this topic. If you believe that you must ask God for forgiveness and then tell another that they can choose not to, you're pretty much sending them on the path to Hell. Taking such a belief to its conclusion (not that you are actually doing that). This is why its important to grasp what Jesus did on our behalf, and all that He accomplished.
Romans 3:23-28 King James Version (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Even here in the context of the verse you brought up, it is clear that we are justified by faith. Not sin confession. Where it says "remission of sins that are past", well what sin that has been committed isn't past? Once committed it is behind us (in time). It reads (as some versions translate it) entirely different as well.
Romans 3:25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed
Romans 3:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
Romans 3:25 English Standard Version (ESV)
25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Ben . . . did I ever say that "we were saved by sin confession"? Romans 3:25 which I quoted was to point out - to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; -we are forgiven for sins that are past . . . I know that I am justified because of my faith in Christ . . . I know that I am made righteous because of my faith in Christ . . . again - got no problem with salvation!
This takes on a whole 'nother meaning. It doesn't make sense to say that Jesus only paid for sins up until the moment we repented, because all sin has the penalty of death. If Christ did not die for sins past the moment of repentance they would still need to be paid for (through blood shed, because without the shedding of blood there is no remission). In other words, Jesus (being the sacrifice) would have to go again to the cross (Hebrews 9:26,"suffering since the foundation of the world").I think what I don't like is the phrase "sin confession" . . . that sounds like I keep a list of all my sins and make sure that IHebrews 10:5-18 King James Version (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
This is the truth on the matter, Jesus died once, and for all. He doesn't keep sacrificing as like the priests of old (daily), but once. He sat down, at the Father's right hand. One offering. For all sin. "Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." Sin confession for forgiveness doesn't fully acknowledge Christ's sacrifice (the doctrine, not you).
I know you see sin confession in a relational way with the Father and that's fine, in that you feel that you desire to be open with the Lord. Having nothing to hide. That is a good mindset, to be naked and yet clothed in His righteousness. Nothing wrong with approaching the throne of grace in time of need, to obtain mercy and grace to walk in victory and resist temptation. More power to you! A good heart indeed! But, let us not put our confidence in practices and only in Jesus Christ, who through His sacrifice granted us the forgiveness of sin (all sin).
confess each one . . . it's not quite like that. Let's say I hit my thumb with the hammer - I say something I shouldn't - at that exact moment - I say sorry . . . did I have to "confess" that I said something I shouldn't? Nope - my heavenly Father knew what I was saying "I'm sorry" for and I'm forgiven. What do you do when you break a command of God? Nothing?
I think I make God happy that I am mindful of him . . . Forgiveness is relational.
It depends on the attitude of the individual (heart).I have to ask those who insist we have to keep asking forgiveness for sins.
What happens if you don't?
Will God stop listening to your prayers? Will He stop helping you in times of need? Will He stop loving you? Will He snatch your salvation from you?
Please be specific.
Matthew 13 " .....16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Matthew 18 " Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."
remember the Man couldnt pay the debt to begin with, and Being tormented i cant imagine How He is going to pay the great debt.......Note it is based on the fact that the Man received Mercy first for His great debt. and then He goes out after receiving the forgiveness of His debt, and refuses to treat the Man who owes Him little.
after He does this, He is then recalled to the Lord and the Lord reinstates His debt all based on the fact that He would Not forgive as He was forgiven.
Judge Not, Lest Ye be Judged, forgive and you will be forgiven, By the same measure you use, it will be measured to you again, shaken and stirred and over running."
Be not deceived a Man reaps what He sows"
sow Mercy, in Light of the fact Mercy saved you. and clearly, it matters to Jesus whether we forgive others when they sin against us. He is the Lord, its His blood that purchased forgiveness, and it is By Hos word, His statements that we receive anything of God including forgiveness. theres No grounds to make it Not necassary, it clearly is necassary. thats what the parable is teaching. " if you forgive those who sin against you, your father in Heaven will forgive you your sins, if you do not forgive others Niether will your Father forgive you" ( Matthew 614-15)
we can see that 2 ways. either Jesus is the Lord, His words will never change or pass away so therefore, if i have a grudge in me...i need to forgive Now. or....we can say " well Paul said its By Grace, so then that Means what i do doesnt apply to anything and what Jesus said, Just doesnt apply to His disciples. christians.
its Not against us because we May have a grudge to condemn us, He is teaching us so that we can opurge the things from Our Lives that will be Just as He says they will be. No matter what Jesus teaches all of it will be forever exactly as He said it will be. so when We face Judgement, why Not Make sure, we Have taken the Words of the Judge to Heart? theres No fear in that Heck, if a christian has an issue, with forgiving anyone, its Hard to then state they are following the spirit which forgave the world for its abominations. we Have to take Heed of Jesus, He is the North of the compass. should we debate whether the Judge Knows what He is saying? or should we Just understand " He is the Lord of all creation.....what He says is the right belief to Keep. seems simple.......
Ben . . . did I ever say that "we were saved by sin confession"? Romans 3:25 which I quoted was to point out - to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; -we are forgiven for sins that are past . . . I know that I am justified because of my faith in Christ . . . I know that I am made righteous because of my faith in Christ . . . again - got no problem with salvation!
I know that there is no real reason to respond but I hate that anyone reading this thread feel that they are "wrong" in acknowledging their sin . . . I think that it pleases God and keeps Him foremost in our minds to live a godly life.
ALL can mean either ALL without exception or ALL with distinction. ALL with distinction would be those sins committed up until the time I repented - those that are past which is stated in Romans 3:25 -
The reason we acknowledge sins in our lives - and all of us have them - is to be forgiven. It has to do with our relationship with our heavenly Father and with others in the body of Christ. Our standing before God is as His child . . . just as our standing in our earthly family is that of our parents' child. Our "state" within that family can fluctuate according to behavior - we may get grounded from family activities and therefore not get to fellowship within the family dynamic until we acknowledge our wrong and when we acknowledge our wrong - forgiveness is given and we are restored within the family relationship . . . same as with our spiritual family. Wrongs are committed that cause hurt feelings, reasons to grieve . . . those hurts need to be amended in order to restore the fellowship within the family and that includes grieving our heavenly Father.
That is the way I want to live my life honoring my heavenly Father with reverence and respect. I don't believe apologizing for wrongs committed and/or asking for forgiveness and I'm sure God doesn't mind at all. As I said before - if you don't think you need to ask forgiveness for sins committed in the present or in the future - don't ask.
if you really actually Look at the chapter you get the message clearly, for Just that verse, you then need to understand " what does it Mean to be in christ" john 15
romans 8 " For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.Control by the Spirit
(Galatians 5:16-26)9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
"therefore" what He has Been saying, He is summarizing its Meaning Here. its about the "deeds of the Body" to live afterthe flesh, is to follow the desires of the flesh that paul speaks in galatians 5 and ephesians 5, its to follow sin, things Like adultery, covetousness, greed.... to Live after the flesh is to feed those things partaking of them, to "Mortify" is to make something as dead. or put to death something"
Put to death the deeds of the Body and you will Live"
to Be in Christ is to abide in His teachings again John 15, the same teachings Jesus calls " The spirit, and the Life" to understand Paul, One has to go to Jesus first or His use of phrases and terms Has no foundation. many have no idea How to Hear from the Holy ghost, what He might say, what it is to Live by the spirit" because people try to see Paul without Jesus as the foundation.
all He says about the spirit and flesh Began with the gospel. " the flesh counts for Nothing, the spirit gives Life" .." it is the spirit that Quickens, the words i speak to you are spirit and Life."
all of Pauls wroitings are Lijke that without the Words Jesus speaks they dont makes any sense. Jesus has to Be the foundation, and the Mediation between a Believer and God it cant Be paul alone. He carried a Message thats what we Need. and it Begins with the Son of God whom paul was Preaching.
Ben . . . did I ever say that "we were saved by sin confession"? Romans 3:25 which I quoted was to point out - to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; -we are forgiven for sins that are past . . . I know that I am justified because of my faith in Christ . . . I know that I am made righteous because of my faith in Christ . . . again - got no problem with salvation!
I think what I don't like is the phrase "sin confession" . . . that sounds like I keep a list of all my sins and make sure that I
confess each one . . . it's not quite like that. Let's say I hit my thumb with the hammer - I say something I shouldn't - at that exact moment - I say sorry . . . did I have to "confess" that I said something I shouldn't? Nope - my heavenly Father knew what I was saying "I'm sorry" for and I'm forgiven. What do you do when you break a command of God? Nothing?
I think I make God happy that I am mindful of him . . . Forgiveness is relational.
I would say that confession is relational.
For me and I have said it before.
When I get it wrong I fess it up.
Say "God sorry I did that please work in me"
I think you have a trigger for certian phrases which cause you to think one is suggesting something even after they have said NO.
1. I do not beleive one can lose thier salvation . So I hope that helps you.
There is a better argument against it.2. There is a good arugement for one to lose thier salvation from those who hold to that doctrine.
3. NO i'm not saying if you do not ask forgiveness you will lose your salvation
4. No we do not have to repay for the wages of sin , sin produces it's own reward death.
5. NO as you know we cannot eran our rightiousness
6. I belong to know group
God is Holy , we who are saved have the SPirit of God in us; therefore we will not sin and be at peace. How does one greive the Holy Spirit?
it speaks directly to the intergity of the person and thier relationship with God who willfully sin's and knows that they have sinned and think they do not have to repent. That is mind boggling to me it surely does not sound fearful of the Lord (reverent)
If the Holy Spirit point out to Cs1 hey you did wrong , missed the mark, sined, CS1 will ask forgiveness. Why? Because Grace was not owed to me it was agift to me . So to be thankful I think it would be best to humble myself and have that mindset instead of I don't need to. But hey thats just how I see in the word of God. And I can be wrong and so can you. If i'm wrong there is no issue.
But ... that means we DO have a say in our salvation ... Are you preaching a works-based salvation here?
(Just yanking your chain)
What is so hard ti understand - once saved sin no longer affects salvation.
Yet once saved sin still holds the power of bondage, and will be judged and rewarded/punished accordingly?
welp the truth has been said already here in detail....
but not by those who lie (even if unknowingly) about Gods character and the gospel
im washing my hands of this thread
those who desire to remain under the law are pretty much blind to reproof it seems
too desperate to establish their own righteousness
ignoring the sacrifice of Jesus
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above![]()
The ONLY sin jesus did not die for.
Amen sis...I agree completely here. The first few sentences of your post is why I don't like threads like this. Seems that most here agree that we should be sorrowful and ask forgiveness when we sin, out of respect for God and his holy ways...well at least I hope so anyhow. So why would anyone even want to discuss whether it is necessary or not?I know that there is no real reason to respond but I hate that anyone reading this thread feel that they are "wrong" in acknowledging their sin . . . I think that it pleases God and keeps Him foremost in our minds to live a godly life.
ALL can mean either ALL without exception or ALL with distinction. ALL with distinction would be those sins committed up until the time I repented - those that are past which is stated in Romans 3:25 -
The reason we acknowledge sins in our lives - and all of us have them - is to be forgiven. It has to do with our relationship with our heavenly Father and with others in the body of Christ. Our standing before God is as His child . . . just as our standing in our earthly family is that of our parents' child. Our "state" within that family can fluctuate according to behavior - we may get grounded from family activities and therefore not get to fellowship within the family dynamic until we acknowledge our wrong and when we acknowledge our wrong - forgiveness is given and we are restored within the family relationship . . . same as with our spiritual family. Wrongs are committed that cause hurt feelings, reasons to grieve . . . those hurts need to be amended in order to restore the fellowship within the family and that includes grieving our heavenly Father.
That is the way I want to live my life honoring my heavenly Father with reverence and respect. I don't believe apologizing for wrongs committed and/or asking for forgiveness and I'm sure God doesn't mind at all. As I said before - if you don't think you need to ask forgiveness for sins committed in the present or in the future - don't ask.
A child of God will suffer more, they will suffer the result of sin, plus the lords chastening. so the suffering is greater in a believer than it is in a non believer
Jesus died for the sins of the world. It's the sins we want to keep that the blood cannot cover
Uh huh.
Look, here's the skinny. If you have any sins that are attributed to you, that are left in your account, that you must have forgiven, you are lost and there's nothing you can do about it.
Here's why: One sin will damn you. If there is a single sin of yours yet to be paid for, then God must separate from you. The Holy Spirit must leave you. You will not be holy, righteous, nor perfect, as God said all of His children are.
You will not be able to ever be saved, because the Bible says without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. Since the Bible also says the sacrifice of Jesus was a one-time only event, He's not coming back to die for anymore sins, your situation would be hopeless.
Either all sins were paid for and forgiven at the cross, or we're all doomed.