my brother became a Mormon and my mom is freaking out

[miknik5]

Greetings:

I just spent the last hour reading all the messages in this thread. It was enlightening in many respects. While I came across several things that I feel are mistaken, I thought two were important enough to comment on:

Mormons have a very different view than most Christians do of many subjects from scripture, salvation, sin, ad epistemology, to God. However, their view is that Jesus Christ was God "in the beginning." That is, before He was born of Mary in Bethlehem, He was God; He created the heavens and the earth; He came to earth and lived in mortality as God in human flesh. Mormon scripture is replete with references to Jesus Christ being God from the beginning.

Secondly, someone claimed that Mormons taught that Africans did not have souls. That is mistaken. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism claimed that all mankind are the children of God spiritually before being born on this earth. Every living soul--animal and human have souls.

Almer

So Jesus was not brothers with ______?

im sorry but I can't even bring myself to say it

someone suggested that Mormon's believe Jesus and ______were brothers...Ive heard that before

but now with your statement that Mormons believe Jesus was indeed God before HE came in the flesh than what does that make HIS so called "brother"?

 

[followjesus]

So that makes them Christians?

they believe this, and it makes them Christians

1 john 5:1-5 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God ( see v 1) overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

They believe very much the Holy bible, its an official part of thier doctrine, an official statement of thier church is that "everyone should daily read and believe the Holy bible, because it is the word of God."

like any other denomination they have differing beliefs than other denominations, some follow a grace grace doctrine, others are considered legalists, others believe gifts like tounges and things have ceased, others believe they havent, others believe this and that, while others believe this other thing.

But the foundation of thier belief is that Jesus Christ is One with the Father, was born of mary, that all the prophecied beforehand in the ot of the bible are true and infallible, they believe that The four gospels are true infallibly just like most christians, they believe that after His resurrection during the 40 days he spent sometimes with the disciples and then Hed disappear from them and tell them to go somewhere like galilee, that he then appeared in the ancient americas and taught those people the same exact things He teaches in the 4 gospels. theres really no disputing it, its written in the book of mormon. they believe in the same Jesus born and written of in the 4 gospels. its just that they believe, he appeared over there also during those 40 days between His resurrection and ascention when He was taken to Heaven and seated at the right hand of God.

Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

that makes them christian. they have differing views of afterward, but thats true of every different denomination of Christianity. they worship God, through His Son Jesus Christ. as do most Christians. all things are possible with God and as John says

john 21:25 "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."


they are Bible believing Christians at that, do i agree with thier latter day prophecy naw, but that can be said of most any denomination these days, we really should simply accept those who accept Jesus of the Bible, Because He does

 

[Ahwatukee]

they believe this, and it makes them Christians

1 john 5:1-5 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God ( see v 1) overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

They believe very much the Holy bible, its an official part of thier doctrine, an official statement of thier church is that "everyone should daily read and believe the Holy bible, because it is the word of God."

like any other denomination they have differing beliefs than other denominations, some follow a grace grace doctrine, others are considered legalists, others believe gifts like tounges and things have ceased, others believe they havent, others believe this and that, while others believe this other thing.

But the foundation of thier belief is that Jesus Christ is One with the Father, was born of mary, that all the prophecied beforehand in the ot of the bible are true and infallible, they believe that The four gospels are true infallibly just like most christians, they believe that after His resurrection during the 40 days he spent sometimes with the disciples and then Hed disappear from them and tell them to go somewhere like galilee, that he then appeared in the ancient americas and taught those people the same exact things He teaches in the 4 gospels. theres really no disputing it, its written in the book of mormon. they believe in the same Jesus born and written of in the 4 gospels. its just that they believe, he appeared over there also during those 40 days between His resurrection and ascention when He was taken to Heaven and seated at the right hand of God.

Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

that makes them christian. they have differing views of afterward, but thats true of every different denomination of Christianity. they worship God, through His Son Jesus Christ. as do most Christians. all things are possible with God and as John says

john 21:25 "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."


they are Bible believing Christians at that, do i agree with thier latter day prophecy naw, but that can be said of most any denomination these days, we really should simply accept those who accept Jesus of the Bible, Because He does

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

There are Lord's many and gospels many. The gospel that Mormon's preach is a different gospel. And the lord they believe in is a different lord. For to quote Thomas He is "My Lord and my God." Mormon's believe that Jesus is a created being and the spirit brother to Lucifer. Yet regarding the true Lord scripture says that "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." You need to understand the difference between a Christian denomination and a cult. If Mormonism is to be considered as Christian, then JW's, Roman Catholicism, the Unification church and every other cult would be deemed as being Christian, which they are most definitely not.

Regarding their mantra "As man is God once was and as God is man may become" is exactly what caused Lucifer's fall from his heavenly position to be the enemy of God.

Jesus said "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of God. He said this regarding to those who would be trusting in their own works, which is what Mormonism also depends upon, along with many other man-made requirements that are not found in scripture.

 

[followjesus]

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

There are Lord's many and gospels many. The gospel that Mormon's preach is a different gospel. And the lord they believe in is a different lord. For to quote Thomas He is "My Lord and my God." Mormon's believe that Jesus is a created being and the spirit brother to Lucifer. Yet regarding the true Lord scripture says that "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." You need to understand the difference between a Christian denomination and a cult. If Mormonism is to be considered as Christian, then JW's, Roman Catholicism, the Unification church and every other cult would be deemed as being Christian, which they are most definitely not.

Regarding their mantra "As man is God once was and as God is man may become" is exactly what caused Lucifer's fall from his heavenly position to be the enemy of God.

Jesus said "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of God. He said this regarding to those who would be trusting in their own works, which is what Mormonism also depends upon, along with many other man-made requirements that are not found in scripture.

naw im in no need to understand the difference, like i said ive already read the bom, i have first hand Knowledge of what it says, im good with allowing Jesus to do the sorting Out. judgement or door keeper isnt my call. would i ever convert...naw no way. do I suggest anyone else convert ? nope. but i would suggest that they dont convert to alot of denominations of Christianity.

Im 100 percent good with my take on it, others should also go with thier own belief. ill welcome anyone who believes the Holy bible kjv and accepts what it says, the judgement and things while others may have some calling to do that, definately not mine, im too busy with spreading the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels. and encouraging others to go believe them also. the gospel the apostels preached, WAS those 4 gospels the gospel of Gods Kingdom. ive spent the time, had the discussions read the book. so im good where i stand on this, ill accept a catholic Mormon, presbyterian, lutheran, protestant on and on if they acceopt the Jesus Christ in the four gopels, and what He says. because that is christianity.

and they do. now hey is there possibly many lds cults? im sure there is, is there many christian cults ? yep Jim jones and jonestown comes to mind, david koresh and waco comes to mind,even Hitler was basing His beliefs on the bible. that doesnt make the bible evil. my point was way back in the start of this thread. ive read the book, I study the bible daily, and the bom doesnt part with the gospel, its not as much but what they believe about Jesus Christ the same who came and died in Jerusalem, is absolutely the same as the bible teaches....probably because the bible is official doctrine


theres no difference to me and some of the theology on this site following teachings from grace revolution authors, that stuff parts sharpky from Jesus words without question to the point they necessatate ommission of "everything said before the cross" or they teach that Jesus taught the mosaic Law 2.0 lol that stuff is wacky and will het folks out of order, the bom WHILE I AM IN NO WAY ENDORSING ANYONE TO CONVERT OR EVEN READ THE BOOK, the books principles does not part, and i find it perfectly believable that Jesus appeared elsewhere because its clear in the bible He was there, then gone then there then Gone again. do i believe it for myself? no, i have the Bible and need nothing more. but those who find Jesus through the bom and the bible, i accept as christians.

thats my belief and im comfortable calling anyone who Believe Jesus a brother, especially those who have the fruit to back up the name, and many lds do have those fruits because they believe the things He taught, and dont make up revolutions as some " christian authors and pastors do.

 

[graceNpeace]

naw im in no need to understand the difference, like i said ive already read the bom, i have first hand Knowledge of what it says, im good with allowing Jesus to do the sorting Out. judgement or door keeper isnt my call. would i ever convert...naw no way. do I suggest anyone else convert ? nope. but i would suggest that they dont convert to alot of denominations of Christianity.

Im 100 percent good with my take on it, others should also go with thier own belief. ill welcome anyone who believes the Holy bible kjv and accepts what it says, the judgement and things while others may have some calling to do that, definately not mine, im too busy with spreading the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels. and encouraging others to go believe them also. the gospel the apostels preached, WAS those 4 gospels the gospel of Gods Kingdom. ive spent the time, had the discussions read the book. so im good where i stand on this, ill accept a catholic Mormon, presbyterian, lutheran, protestant on and on if they acceopt the Jesus Christ in the four gopels, and what He says. because that is christianity.

and they do. now hey is there possibly many lds cults? im sure there is, is there many christian cults ? yep Jim jones and jonestown comes to mind, david koresh and waco comes to mind,even Hitler was basing His beliefs on the bible. that doesnt make the bible evil. my point was way back in the start of this thread. ive read the book, I study the bible daily, and the bom doesnt part with the gospel, its not as much but what they believe about Jesus Christ the same who came and died in Jerusalem, is absolutely the same as the bible teaches....probably because the bible is official doctrine


theres no difference to me and some of the theology on this site following teachings from grace revolution authors, that stuff parts sharpky from Jesus words without question to the point they necessatate ommission of "everything said before the cross" or they teach that Jesus taught the mosaic Law 2.0 lol that stuff is wacky and will het folks out of order, the bom WHILE I AM IN NO WAY ENDORSING ANYONE TO CONVERT OR EVEN READ THE BOOK, the books principles does not part, and i find it perfectly believable that Jesus appeared elsewhere because its clear in the bible He was there, then gone then there then Gone again. do i believe it for myself? no, i have the Bible and need nothing more. but those who find Jesus through the bom and the bible, i accept as christians.

thats my belief and im comfortable calling anyone who Believe Jesus a brother, especially those who have the fruit to back up the name, and many lds do have those fruits because they believe the things He taught, and dont make up revolutions as some " christian authors and pastors do.

If you really do stand by what you have written then you really are confused about what the Bible says and what is means to be a Christian.
Mormon beliefs are utterly and irreconcilably NON-Christian.

Your beliefs appear to be univeralist (or along those lines) and not Christian.

 

[followjesus]

If you really do stand by what you have written then you really are confused about what the Bible says and what is means to be a Christian.
Mormon beliefs are utterly and irreconcilably NON-Christian.

Your beliefs appear to be univeralist (or along those lines) and not Christian.

lol my beliefs are universalist haha thanks for the judgement, but ill stick with the Gospel spoken By Jesus in the 4 gospels, and YEP i stick to what i have written concerning the lds denomination of christianity, no different from the sects like "the gog" actually no the gog is wacky. so maybe " have nothing to do with me" thats what the Bible says about those who are " teaching some universalist doctrine lol thats funny stuff. thanks for the blessing friend.

 

[graceNpeace]

lol my beliefs are universalist haha thanks for the judgement, but ill stick with the Gospel spoken By Jesus in the 4 gospels, and YEP i stick to what i have written concerning the lds denomination of christianity, no different from the sects like "the gog" actually no the gog is wacky. so maybe " have nothing to do with me" thats what the Bible says about those who are " teaching some universalist doctrine lol thats funny stuff. thanks for the blessing friend.

So the rest of the New Testament you ignore??

 

[SovereignGrace]

What I am seeing purported on here is 'Oprah Winfreyism'...pluralism.

 

[Almer]

So that makes them Christians?

It all depends on how you define "Christian." If you define a Christian as someone who shares fellowship with you, Mormons wouldn't be Christians in your perspective. From my perspective anyone who claims to be a disciple of Jesus Christ would be a Christian. I don't think that term refers to fellowship or salvation--merely discipleship: "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." (Acts 11:26) Of course, that's my perspective. What's really important is what God's perspective is on who is or who is not a Christian.

Almer

 

[SovereignGrace]

It all depends on how you define "Christian." If you define a Christian as someone who shares fellowship with you, Mormons wouldn't be Christians in your perspective. From my perspective anyone who claims to be a disciple of Jesus Christ would be a Christian. I don't think that term refers to fellowship or salvation--merely discipleship: "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." (Acts 11:26) Of course, that's my perspective. What's really important is what God's perspective is on who is or who is not a Christian.

Almer

Its not dependent on what we call a christian, but how the bible defines what a christian is. A true christian will not avow Him being a created being, let alone a brother of Satan. They're not christian in biblical terms.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Well to the OP I think lots of people have given you a lot of advice. Best thing to do is to pray and ask God of course. May God bless you!

 

[Almer]

So Jesus was not brothers with ______?

im sorry but I can't even bring myself to say it

someone suggested that Mormon's believe Jesus and ______were brothers...Ive heard that before

but now with your statement that Mormons believe Jesus was indeed God before HE came in the flesh than what does that make HIS so called "brother"?

The problem comes from your paradigm as contrasted with that of Mormons. The Mormon paradigm is that all spirits were procreated by God --that He is the "Father of spirits." (Hebrews 12:9) So, angels--even those who sinned--are the children of God--brothers and sisters in a pre-mortal family. That's why when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, "Satan came also among them." (Job 1:6) But the fact that Satan shares kinship with other spirits doesn't make him God any more than it makes you God--since you too would be spirit brother to both Satan and Christ. From the Mormon perspective you have a relationship to Jesus that preceded your life here and that He is literally "the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

There's no more reason to worry about the relationship between you, me, Satan, or Jesus because we all have the same Father--God the Father. The fact that He is your Father is no more alarming that that Jesus is your Brother as well. What does that make you? An heir with Christ of all He has promised--if you are obedient to His commandments and repent of your sins.

Almer

 

[Almer]

Its not dependent on what we call a christian, but how the bible defines what a christian is. A true christian will not avow Him being a created being, let alone a brother of Satan. They're not christian in biblical terms.

OK, give me a passage where the Bible defines "Christian" other than what I've already provided of Acts 11:26. That says the disciples were Christians. What was a disciple?

Almer

 

[SovereignGrace]

OK, give me a passage where the Bible defines "Christian" other than what I've already provided of Acts 11:26. That says the disciples were Christians. What was a disciple?

Almer

They believe an addendum. That shows me no discernment of different spirits. A disciple is a follower of Christ. However, we don't follow a created being, that which Mormons state the Christ is and also a brother of the devil, but God the Son.

In no way is a Mormon a christian.

 

[followjesus]

So the rest of the New Testament you ignore??

again another perfectly good example of how things get distorted, no Not at all. i just do not fall for the gog interpretation and understand that Jesus sent the disciples INCLUDING PAUL to preach His gospel to the world. everything they are teaching, is Jesus Gospel of the Kingdom of God. thats what the 4 gospels are, Jesus preaching Gods truth to the world, after the resurrection He tells them " Go into the world and baptize and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey everything i commanded you" so yeah no i believe every word in the Holy bible from genesis to revelation. ive studied it for about 30 years prayerfully asking God for understanding for about the last 15 years, was just reading romans last night for about the 50th time, i just understand that the 4 gospels are the foundation of the Bible and not a single teaching of Jesus is omittable . so naw i dont ignore any book in the bible learn from anyone i read daily, i just dont omit things Like this

ephesians 5:3-5 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

because paul wrote this in the same letter to the same people

ephesians 2:4-10 "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

i dont choose what to believe in the bible nor do i need a joseph proince book to tell me which to believe, i need no revolution of Gods word, thats what the serpent does from eden forward. I simply believe the Word of God given By Jesus Christ, and everything else has the light of truth to make it abundantly clear. which is why my message here remains the 4 gospels are where christians need to put thier faith and then look at the apostles teachings, otherwise like peter writes of paul its easily distorted into what it isnt

2 peter 3:15-18 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

and need not omit this

2 john 1:9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

all because i understand this

matthew 7:24-27 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

and this

1 timothy 6:3-5 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


because i understand this

john 7:16-17 "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself<<<< which jkesus said many times many different ways


i also believe everything the prophets and law say about Jesus, like paul did.

acts 28:23 " And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


there isnt a word in the bible, if the context is condiered that i dont believe.

 

[Almer]

They believe an addendum. That shows me no discernment of different spirits. A disciple is a follower of Christ. However, we don't follow a created being, that which Mormons state the Christ is and also a brother of the devil, but God the Son.

In no way is a Mormon a christian.

You just reiterated your previous comment. You said it's not dependent what we call a Christian; "but how the bible defines what a christian is." I suggested that you provide a biblical definition beyond the passage I cited and you simply gave another opinion that may or may not be biblical--what was it that Luther said? "All others I so read as not to hold what they say to be truth unless they prove it to me by Holy Scripture or clear reason."

Almer

 

[miknik5]

lol my beliefs are universalist haha thanks for the judgement, but ill stick with the Gospel spoken By Jesus in the 4 gospels, and YEP i stick to what i have written concerning the lds denomination of christianity, no different from the sects like "the gog" actually no the gog is wacky. so maybe " have nothing to do with me" thats what the Bible says about those who are " teaching some universalist doctrine lol thats funny stuff. thanks for the blessing friend.

What? Could you please explain what you are saying in this post? The "gog"?

also in your prior post

What revolutions are you talking about?

 

[miknik5]

The problem comes from your paradigm as contrasted with that of Mormons. The Mormon paradigm is that all spirits were procreated by God --that He is the "Father of spirits." (Hebrews 12:9) So, angels--even those who sinned--are the children of God--brothers and sisters in a pre-mortal family. That's why when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, "Satan came also among them." (Job 1:6) But the fact that Satan shares kinship with other spirits doesn't make him God any more than it makes you God--since you too would be spirit brother to both Satan and Christ. From the Mormon perspective you have a relationship to Jesus that preceded your life here and that He is literally "the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

There's no more reason to worry about the relationship between you, me, Satan, or Jesus because we all have the same Father--God the Father. The fact that He is your Father is no more alarming that that Jesus is your Brother as well. What does that make you? An heir with Christ of all He has promised--if you are obedient to His commandments and repent of your sins.

Almer

Paradigm?

Jesus was GOD before HE came in the flesh ;this is what you have described Mormons as believing)

and yet they believe Jesus was spirit brothers with _____?

that makes for many "gods" in Heaven

and to us there is only ONE GOD
And ONE HOLY SPIRIT


Not many


thsts a very big issue

 

[followjesus]

What? Could you please explain what you are saying,

also in your prior post

What revolutions are you talking about?

the " grace revolution" or any other revolutions of what the word of God says, and yeah i believe the entire bible, its Just that the 4 gospels, have to be the first and foremost in order to understand the rest is what im saying. God bless you though either way. its alright with me if people dont think lds are christians, i know better though, because i took the time to actually read thier book, and sit and discuss many times the bible , was very sceptical to begin with, after many talks though, i beliueve them to be a denomination of christianity.

Based on the information in the book of mormon, do i advise anyone to convert no, am i mormon, no, would i suggest anyone read the bom no, im saying I have and do believe they are a denomination of christianity like catholic, protestant or any other. and Jesus will sort out each individual regardless of thier label or denomination accroding to His word. and its not our place to exclude things we havent done the research on. that was the only point i had until folks insisted the things they have here concerning me .


but God bless you though, imna drop this thread, i kind of see no fruit in it, i hope to find some different subjects we can agree on at another time, Grace and peace to you in the Lord Jesus

 

[SovereignGrace]

You just reiterated your previous comment. You said it's not dependent what we call a Christian; "but how the bible defines what a christian is." I suggested that you provide a biblical definition beyond the passage I cited and you simply gave another opinion that may or may not be biblical--what was it that Luther said? "All others I so read as not to hold what they say to be truth unless they prove it to me by Holy Scripture or clear reason."

Almer

Mormonism is a spirit of anti-Christ. That spirit denies the Christ came in the flesh. Seeing they believe that the Christ is a created being and a brother of the devil, they deny the Christ is very God. So, they deny the Christ came in the flesh. Christ...Christos...means anointed One. So, they have the spirit of anti-Christ and do not follow the true Christ.