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Yep, completely. People ought to recognize their sinfulness and come to Christ to receive Him as Lord and Savior. In acknowledging their sin they see their need for a Savior who will cleanses them from all unrighteousness. Those verses are like a compact version of the Gospel.
J
jasonj
Guest
lOL look at the scriptures he responded to with His comment. insight and wisdom is lacking......you guys have absolutely NO ammunition against me. My message is in FULL agreement with Jesus words. but ....bring on EVERY SINGLE ONE og the g.o.g. and watch how this goes, you guys have completely set my spirit ablaze in the Joy of Jesus Christ. Lets keep goin this will lead somewhere good
praise Jesus holy name !!!!!
J
jasonj
Guest
Yep, completely. People ought to recognize their sinfulness and come to Christ to receive Him as Lord and Savior. In acknowledging their sin they see their need for a Savior who will cleanses them from all unrighteousness. Those verses are like a compact version of the Gospel.
Have you ever read Jesus ben? he says "for IF you forgive men when they sin against you, you will be forgiven, IF you do not forgive mens sins your Heavenly Father will NOT forgive you your sins" so yeah what else you got ?
Yep, completely. People ought to recognize their sinfulness and come to Christ to receive Him as Lord and Savior. In acknowledging their sin they see their need for a Savior who will cleanses them from all unrighteousness. Those verses are like a compact version of the Gospel.
OK, well you're being a little deceitful there IMHO because hyper grace doctrine that you follow teaches that that verse is directed only to unbelievers, which now that I've said that, the discerning reader will be able to see that you purposely omitted that from your comment, which means that you don't think 1 john 1:9 is for believers to follow. Correctamundo?
J
jasonj
Guest
every part of their doctrine REQUOIRES ommital of the truth of Jesus. that's what makes it destructive and totally false
I've fell quite a few times, just because your saved don't mean you won't fall, or you won't be tricked into doing something " fun ". It just doesn't happen like that, we don't get saved and then comes complete obedience. I will say if you do come to one of these points and you don't pass the test " disobey ". It only gets worse on yourself.. but He still loves us and still works on us, no doubt there.lOL look at the scriptures he responded to with His comment. insight and wisdom is lacking......you guys have absolutely NO ammunition against me. My message is in FULL agreement with Jesus words. but ....bring on EVERY SINGLE ONE og the g.o.g. and watch how this goes, you guys have completely set my spirit ablaze in the Joy of Jesus Christ. Lets keep goin this will lead somewhere good
Hyper grace teaches that there is no reason to pray for forgiveness of current sins because they have already been forgiven.
How does that work for the bond of iniquity Simon (who believed and was baptized) when Peter said, Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
I answered knowing you know my stance on those verses.
I presented to you my stance, which clearly reveals it is for someone in need of coming to Christ. If you want to know fully how I think of those verses, you can go look for the threads I've made on them. There was no deception, I stated clearly what I said and it agrees with the grace perspective of things. Both of my responses are exactly my perspective on those verses. I only disagree with your interpretation of them and application under the new covenant.
This does not mean that we hide our sin from God or that we don't address sin in our lives. That is the false assumption being put forth, or rather the inference given. The way we address sin may differ from you but nonetheless it is being addressed into a life that is sanctified by God and in living holy by His grace and providence.
Did Jesus teach the apostle Paul? Then what do you have to say about this?
Ephesians 4:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Colossians 3:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Do you notice that you already have Christ's forgiveness according to these verses? It seems you either have a contradiction at hand (between Jesus and Jesus' apostle) or you aren't rightly dividing the Bible. Either way the doctrine you're purporting is erroneous for a new covenant believer and ignores what Jesus accomplished at the cross (forgiveness of sins).
Ephesians 1:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
I will say the same to you, "Yeah, what else you got?"
OK. I have no problem with that, but I think what you said, at least at face value, is not the classic hyper grace position.
Good one, most excellent Pilgrim. Let's see how they spin this. (We might have to wait until one of the hyper grace gurus publishes a response on his/her website before we hear a copy/paste response).
Then we have the opposite of Hyper Grace that teaches we can lose our Salvation by sinning.
Again HeRoseFromTheDead how can we lose our Salvation by sinning when the Blood of Jesus has already cleansed us of that sin?
You still either do not understand or refuse to accept what the Holy Spirit says.
There is nothing we can do to lose our Salvation. Jesus never taught we can lose our Salvation. Why? Because Jesus said He CHOSE us to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
Ephesians 1:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love [SUP]5 [/SUP]He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. [SUP]7[/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight [SUP]9 [/SUP]He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him [SUP]10 [/SUP]with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him [SUP]11 [/SUP]also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
We were chosen by God to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
No where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit ever say we can lose our Salvation. Our Salvation is not based on what we have done, its all based on what Jesus has done.
It was Jesus who died on the Cross. It was God who chose us to be His sons. It was the Blood of Jesus that cleansed us of ALL our sins. AND we were sealed in Him by God!
Salvation is not received by our works and Salvation is not keep by our works.
Do you not understand HeRoseFromTheDead that it was God who came looking for us, we did not go looking for God!
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]as it is written,“There is none righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
Again HeRoseFromTheDead how can we lose our Salvation by sinning when the Blood of Jesus has already cleansed us of that sin?
You still either do not understand or refuse to accept what the Holy Spirit says.
There is nothing we can do to lose our Salvation. Jesus never taught we can lose our Salvation. Why? Because Jesus said He CHOSE us to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
Ephesians 1:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love [SUP]5 [/SUP]He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. [SUP]7[/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight [SUP]9 [/SUP]He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him [SUP]10 [/SUP]with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him [SUP]11 [/SUP]also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
We were chosen by God to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
No where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit ever say we can lose our Salvation. Our Salvation is not based on what we have done, its all based on what Jesus has done.
It was Jesus who died on the Cross. It was God who chose us to be His sons. It was the Blood of Jesus that cleansed us of ALL our sins. AND we were sealed in Him by God!
Salvation is not received by our works and Salvation is not keep by our works.
Do you not understand HeRoseFromTheDead that it was God who came looking for us, we did not go looking for God!
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]as it is written,“There is none righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
It most definitely is, I think you have just misunderstood grace teachers in the past. Just like people thought the Apostle Paul preached licentiousness, or to sin that grace may abound. As he said, and as do grace preachers today, "God forbid!" lol Dead to sin and alive unto God.
J
jasonj
Guest
sure he does, but He also gives several strict warnings against disobeidience. He warns many times about hearing and not doing. He warns of Hell ect. God Loves the worst sinner, in the end though, there is a hell to deny in ourselves so many things Jesus says, in favor of a God who would never punish evil LIKE he says continually is dangerous, terribly dangerous to a Christian. Just as dangerous as adam and eve disregarding Gods words in the Garden. what if tomorrow is the day He returns? there is a day when the time will be up, this isn't me trying to "scare" anyone, its Gods word. Because we don't like to acknowledge Hell, doesn't mean it isn't true. universalism, and gog aren't really that far apart in my mind. anything other than Jesus and What He teaches His followers is not the Gospel. its terrible that people preach a "gospel" that doesn't begin and end in Christ Jesus terrible thing given the price He paid to deliver the gospel to us.
People will look at all this, and see oh there saying the same thing. No, I'm not in agreement maybe 20 percent possibly. Any Christian should be able to say, okay, yeah Jesus, its about Jesus. when I'm saying obey.....its because HE says that. so anyone who wants to dispairage or argue against what I'm saying should spend time studying Jesus, and realize Who God calls Christians to follow and Love. if a person says I love Jesus, they will be happily obeying His word. they will WANT to know every word He said. He is the exact representation of God. its about obedience to the gospel. its not about hearing grace that saves us no matter what we do or choose to sow in Life. that's a doctrine that is wide and many enter through, leads somewhere not great. until a person will take Obeying Jesus is Love for Jesus, as again He himself says repeatedly Him, Jesus, Christ, the Lord. He said it over and over. obey my commands...live. and yes, He does give stern warnings again repeatedly about condemnation.
complete obedience? this is my point with obeying Jesus, you don't have to be perfect. why? because He teaches about forgiveness. in more than one place. He always repeats lessons as does scripture. The Law in Christ for our forgiveness, is to forgive others. very clear. the grace folk don't like to hear the rest of that so ill not post it. the age od positive thinking and all....His ways provide everything we need to make sense of scripture. in Christ the words is plain. to be IN Christ not only in thought, but as He is the Lord. all of our heart should be in obedience to Him, grace does thatt
A
Ariel82
Guest
Grace saves us, but obedience allows us to be free and live lives for God and do His work.
Our salvation is not based upon how well we obey but the faith God gave us in Christ and His finished works.
But what many forget and fall short is they think the journey ends with faith but it's just the beginning...faith is meant to be added into
Don't beat the babes in the Lord...they may still be learning knowledge and haven't moved on to learning self control.
Our salvation is not based upon how well we obey but the faith God gave us in Christ and His finished works.
But what many forget and fall short is they think the journey ends with faith but it's just the beginning...faith is meant to be added into
Don't beat the babes in the Lord...they may still be learning knowledge and haven't moved on to learning self control.
A
Ariel82
Guest
“In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone. The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But those who fail to develop in this way are shortsighted or blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.”
**2 Peter *1:5-9 *NLT
http://bible.com/116/2pe.1.5-9.nlt
**2 Peter *1:5-9 *NLT
http://bible.com/116/2pe.1.5-9.nlt
A
Ariel82
Guest
We start with faith in God's love and Christ redemptive work on the cross1...then
2. We gain virtue through the cleansed blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
3. The Holy Spirit and study of the Bible teaches us knowledge
4. Through practice and chastenment from God we,learn self control.
5.we have to continue in patient endurance. Because we may stumble and fall and need God's grace and forgiveness to put us back on the right track.
6. Godliness is the fruit of self control and endurance.
7. Brotherly affection is when we want our fellows to experience the same joy and freedom of living a godly life. It is helping the poor, widows, homeless.
8. Love is more than what the world thinks. It is agape love, unconditional. It's turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you.
2. We gain virtue through the cleansed blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
3. The Holy Spirit and study of the Bible teaches us knowledge
4. Through practice and chastenment from God we,learn self control.
5.we have to continue in patient endurance. Because we may stumble and fall and need God's grace and forgiveness to put us back on the right track.
6. Godliness is the fruit of self control and endurance.
7. Brotherly affection is when we want our fellows to experience the same joy and freedom of living a godly life. It is helping the poor, widows, homeless.
8. Love is more than what the world thinks. It is agape love, unconditional. It's turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you.