New Covenant and Old Covenant

[Nehemiah6]

laws are laws. covenants are covenants.

As long as we are clear that the Old Covenant primarily consists of laws, including the Ten Commandments (written on tablets of stone).

And the New Covenant retains those laws, but on the hearts and minds of believers.

So there is a very close relationship between laws and covenants for these two major covenants.

However, the covenant with Noah did have some laws, but the Abrahamic Covenant was PURELY OF GRACE, and that is where Christ enters the picture.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As long as we are clear that the Old Covenant primarily consists of laws, including the Ten Commandments (written on tablets of stone).

And the New Covenant retains those laws, but on the hearts and minds of believers.

I disagree. Jesus spoke his own law.

 

[Shamah]

I disagree. Jesus spoke his own law.

I believe Yahshua/Jesus mediates YHWH's Law in it's perfect intent;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”[/FONT]

How could we know if it comes from YHWH? Because it is written in the ot.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Heaven and earth has not passed away;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:23, "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the others.”[/FONT]

 

[Blik]

The law of sin and death versus the LAW of the spirit.

Two different laws talked about in scripture.

Main difference?

On Mount Sinai the people refused to hear from God directly. So they got written laws and prophets and priests.

On Mount Zion we are given the Holy spirit to live in our hearts and our bodies are His holy temple.

People claim the law is the same. How ever Jesus shows how it has changed. The New Covenant is not just rehashing the old.

What gives you the idea that God has changed the law? We are to learn certain principles about God and all God tells us must fall within those principles. One is that God can be relied on to stay the same and that is for eternity. When you mess around with that basic fact about God you have to know you are into falsehood.

For example circumcision. We are told from Genesis to Rev. that we are to be circumcised. We find in Rev. that some Jews had the foreskin cut but were not circumcised in God's eyes for the physical cutting of skin was a symbol only of the real circumcision of the heart. God explained circumcision to us through the physical circumcision and the spiritual results that were to happen through that. With the Holy Spirit given to us all we are to listen to that to be circumcised without the need for the physical cutting of foreskin. We are to know Torah so we know all about the circumcision that we are directed to have. This law is not given to us to please God, it is given to us because it results helping us live better.

The law, however, is the law and even if the direction to cut foreskin changed, the law did not change.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I disagree. Jesus spoke his own law.

It was Jesus (as the eternal Word and as YHWH) who gave the Law on Mount Sinai.

Then Jesus of Nazareth quoted from the Torah and gave us the two greatest commandments, both of which have the word "love".

Then Christ made love the supreme commandment, thus the apostles spoke of the Law of Christ.

So Jesus did not change anything other than elevate the Ten Commandments to their highest Spiritual level.

JESUS (YHWH = LORD = JESUS) SPOKE TO MOSES AND ISRAEL

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

FIRSTLY LOVE GOD

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. LOVE GOD

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: LOVE GOD

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; LOVE GOD

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. LOVE GOD

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. LOVE GOD

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

SECONDLY LOVE YOUR PARENTS

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. LOVE YOUR PARENTS

THIRDLY LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

13 Thou shalt not kill. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

15 Thou shalt not steal. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I believe Yahshua/Jesus mediates YHWH's Law in it's perfect intent;

Well that's true. Jesus didn't speak his own law, he spoke the father's law.

 

[Ariel82]

"What gives you the idea that God has changed the law?"

Jesus quoted the old covenant law "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"....then HE CHANGED IT.

What makes you think that God can't change His laws (terms and conditions) for each covenant?

 

[Shamah]

"What gives you the idea that God has changed the law?"

Jesus quoted the old covenant law "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"....then HE CHANGED IT.

What makes you think that God can't change His laws (terms and conditions) for each covenant?

Do you believe Yahshua/Jesus will not reply the evildoes when He returns? In an eye for an eye fashion?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 18:4-8, “And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has remembered her unrighteousness. Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double. As much as she esteemed herself and lived riotously, so much torture and grief give to her, because in her heart she says, ‘I sit as sovereigness, and I am not a widow, and I do not see mourning at all. Because of this her plagues shall come in one day: death and mourning and scarcity of food. And she shall be burned up with fire, because [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]our Strength who judges her is mighty.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[Ariel82]

I believe Jesus addresses evil and sin TODAY. He doesn't do it in an eye for an eye or tooth for a tooth way.

I believe in the forgiveness of sin and God's grace.
He loved us even when we were enemies.

I don't agree with your understanding or use of scripture

****

even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."

 

[Shamah]

I believe Jesus addresses evil and sin TODAY. He doesn't do it in an eye for an eye or tooth for a tooth way.

I believe in the forgiveness of sin and God's grace.
He loved us even when we were enemies.

I don't agree with your understanding or use of scripture

****

even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."

Do you believe He will repay and destroy evil doers upon His return?


Revelation 18:4-8, “...Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double....”


John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son

 

[prove-all]

The death penealty for murder was inforced in the old test.
The death penealty for murder is inforced in the new test.

 

[prove-all]

Covenant (law), a promise to engage in or refrain from a specified action
Covenant (religion), a formal alliance or agreement made by God with
a religious community or with humanity in general.

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Many want to tie this commandment to the book of the covenant
(which was actually the civil law of Moses) listed in Exodus chapters 20 through 24
and say that this commandment is done away because the Old Covenant is done away.


John 5:39 (KJV)
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
Then Peter said unto them, [Repent, and be baptized] every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive [the gift] of the Holy Ghost.
-

The New Covenant is founded on better promises (Hebrews 8:6),
which consist of “eternal inheritance” (Hebrews 9:15).

the New Covenant validates God's laws by putting them right into
the minds and hearts of true Christians!

Jesus "magnified" God's law (Isaiah 42:21, KJV). He taught that Christians are
not to murder, and must not even harbor an attitude of hate (Matthew 5:21–24)

"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).
the bible says the law was ordained unto life, and Wherefore [the law is holy],
and the commandment holy, and just, and good. - the law was [not] the curse


Christ came "to confirm the promises made to the fathers" (Romans 15:8).
He outlined the terms and conditions of the New Covenant, saying:
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4; Deu 8:3).

 

[Ariel82]

I believe Jesus will cast into the fiery pit anyone who has not been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ariel82]

The death penealty for murder was inforced in the old test.
The death penealty for murder is inforced in the new test.

Why did Jesus not stone to death the woman who commited adultery?

 

[Ariel82]

Contracts have terms and conditions.

Covenants have promises and laws.

Similar terms or conditions doesn't mean that all terms or conditions applies to all contracts

 

[prove-all]

The death penalty for murder was enforced in the old test.
The death penalty for murder is enforced in the new test.

Why did Jesus not stone to death the woman who committed adultery?

For one, she did not [murder] anyone, that I know of.

 

[Ariel82]

Old covenant law...do you follow it or do you follow Jesus New covenant laws?

Leviticus 20:10 ►
New International Version
"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

 

[Ariel82]

John 8:7 ►
New International Version
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

 

[Shamah]

Ariel do you not see the pharisees were bearing false witness and not properly applying the Law while seeking its penalty?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:3-11, "8:3, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And having set her in the midst,"8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery."8:5, "“And in the Torah Mosheh commanded us that such should be stoned. What then do You say?”"8:6, "And this they said, trying Him, so that they might accuse Him. But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], bending down, wrote on the ground with the finger, as though He did not hear."8:7, "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”"8:8, "And bending down again, He wrote on the ground."8:9, "And when they heard it, being reproved by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the older ones until the last. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle."8:10, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”"8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 20:10-11, ‘And a man who commits adultery with the wife of another man, who commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor: the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Where was the man that was committing adultery with this woman? The scribes and Pharisees did not include him but only the woman. The Law says “the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.” Therefore without bringing the man also a legal case could not even be started. The accusers themselves were guilty because they were trying to enforce half of a Law, making themselves unreliable witnesses. So no Yahshua/Jesus did not change the Law at any time, the Law was not being followed by the scribes and Pharisees.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 17:6-7, “At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall he that is to die be put to death. He is not put to death by the mouth of one witness. The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people last. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 19:15-16, “One witness does not rise up against a man concerning any crookedness or any sin that he commits. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses a matter is established.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 35:30, “Whoever strikes a being, the murderer shall be executed by the mouth of witnesses, but one witness does not bear witness against someone to die.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 23:1-2, “Do not bring a false report. Do not put your hand with the wrong to be a malicious witness. Do not follow a crowd to do evil, nor bear witness in a strife so as to turn aside after many, to turn aside what is right.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 19:16-18, “When a malicious witness rises up against any man to accuse him of turning aside, then both men who have the dispute shall stand before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], before the priests and the judges who serve in those days. And the judges shall diligently search and see if the witness is a false witness, who has falsely accused his brother.”[/FONT]

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"What gives you the idea that God has changed the law?"

Jesus quoted the old covenant law "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"....then HE CHANGED IT.

What makes you think that God can't change His laws (terms and conditions) for each covenant?

it was never changed

Jesus summed up the law and the intent of the law with loving God and our neighbor

I did an extensive post on this a few days back...largely overlooked

if you list each commandment (the 10) you can easily see how what Jesus said is the essence of the law given by His Father

an eye for eye etc, is not THE law given to Moses and written with the finger of God on 2 tablets of stone

there are 613 laws and ordinances which we do not follow

but the 10 commandments are fulfilled in what Jesus said