Next Big Debate, Obergefell v. Hodges, Gay Marriage

[Bob-Carabbio]

LGBT Marriages

Apr. 28, 2015, the US Supreme Court in Obergefell v. Hodges concluded that gay marriage is a right guaranteed by the US Constitution.

Next big debate now that Roe has ended, many believe Obergefell should be next.

Not only was it unbiblical but is it unconstitutional?

I know where I stand but let us do a poll.

Answer and explain your answer.

Before any of this, Homosexual "Civil unions" were already possible, and were granting to Homosexual combinations, substantially the same RIGHTS as normal couples.

But the Homosexuals wanted to use the term "Marriage" for their union (even though biblical "Marriage" remains an impossibility).

 

[oyster67]

Answer and explain your answer.

Our role as the Church is to focus on the root of all these things and point people to Christ. We are not legislators or judges. We just man the lifeboats.

>

 

[Bluesproverb]

My wife had a prophecy about Christians learning to grow their own food, to share, to save the seed.

I've thought a bit about the well thing. Water is expensive. I don't know about the water table in my neighborhood or if there are any restrictions on wells. I was thinking of barrels to catch rain, but dry spells can ask a while. A neighbor sued because the city charged sewage on the all the water he brought in, while he was putting it on the lawn. So now they will install an outdoor usage meter for 1000. Maybe i should get that and put in a well.

A solar panel company wanted 60K for a system that would not provide all I needed, with no battery storage that shuts off if there is a blackout. They sell to the power company, and I so I wanted to know how it would shut off the outflow to keep from killing a lineman, and they said that I'd lose power. What's the point? They were charging me 30 or 40K for installation over the price of panels I've priced, trying to sell me by comparing it to what I'd be paying the power company already instead of market costs. I'm not handy enough to put them up. I specialize and I'd like a specialist to put them up.

The well, solar panels, and batteries would be good. We've got a garden and freezers and some dry food storage, and a deal to buy sheep and have someone else raise them, and a couple of ducks in the yard for eggs. Ducks eggs are better than chicken, and my neighbors produce more eggs than chickens. I think ducks are nicer than chickens.

I'm not as war hawkish as you are. I don't consider the right to have firearms to be a God-given right, just one in our legal documents. I don't consider the political ideas of the founders of the US to all be inspired by God

When you buy real estate, make sure you get mineral, gas, and water rights under that land to be included.

There are generators that run on natural gas that can serve everything in your house during a blackout. Just make sure you find how to bypass the gas companies shutoff so you can supply your house without government permission.

Then learn how to keep your property private and your own so the state can't take it nor execute eminent domain.

Lots of resources to assist you. Keyword search in any search engine, ''don't file deed keep private property private''.

As to guns, everyone makes a choice. Fight on your feet or serve on your knees.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.

The Jews prayed during the Holocaust. They also prayed for 600 years for a savior to free them from slavery in Egypt, after being slaves in Babylon.
When God sent that savior, Moshe-"Moses'' he had hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses arrived so Pharaoh would not be able to have a change of heart and let God's people go.
Why? The Egyptians were polytheists. Like the Jews were in Babylon well before 'Judaism' came to be.
God wanted to show his powers were superior to the god's and goddesses of the Egyptians pantheon.

Every plague he sent upon the Egyptian people challenged the dominion of every individual Egyptian god or goddess.

After God's death angel slaughtered the first born babies , God let Pharaohs heart to soften and free his people. Blood! For a new covenant.

I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

Lord knows there are enough of those in his church who already lay at his feet everything happening in America now, and the world, is because he's mad at us now.

When he tells me everything happening is part of his plan, for his glory, I think he'll understand I will shoot to kill before I pray for man's chains around my neck because pacifists think us worthy for ticking off God.

But that's just me.
A sheep with a arsenal really shocks to awe a pack of guvmnt wolves.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Before any of this, Homosexual "Civil unions" were already possible, and were granting to Homosexual combinations, substantially the same RIGHTS as normal couples.

But the Homosexuals wanted to use the term "Marriage" for their union (even though biblical "Marriage" remains an impossibility).

Years ago before the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage a Lesbian activist went on a talkshow circuit. Her lecture use to be on YouTube.

She said marriage isn't actually their goal. They don't necessarily want to be married. Their point is to violate the parameters, the domain of marriage itself, that straights always presumed was exclusively Christian. [Her point in a nutshell]

A marriage certificate is a civil union contract.

What the fallen offspring of Sodom don't realize,because they are of that natural mind unable to understand the things of the spirit, is that even when they claim they're in a marriage, are married, they are only so according to the secular state laws as define a state civil union.

They are not,nor ever shall they be, married in the eyes of God.

No court of man will ever abridge that fact.✝️🕊️💕😊

A fact they'll realize far too late.😔

 

[Beckie]

When you buy real estate, make sure you get mineral, gas, and water rights under that land to be included.

There are generators that run on natural gas that can serve everything in your house during a blackout. Just make sure you find how to bypass the gas companies shutoff so you can supply your house without government permission.

Then learn how to keep your property private and your own so the state can't take it nor execute eminent domain.

Lots of resources to assist you. Keyword search in any search engine, ''don't file deed keep private property private''.

As to guns, everyone makes a choice. Fight on your feet or serve on your knees.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.

The Jews prayed during the Holocaust. They also prayed for 600 years for a savior to free them from slavery in Egypt, after being slaves in Babylon.
When God sent that savior, Moshe-"Moses'' he had hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses arrived so Pharaoh would not be able to have a change of heart and let God's people go.
Why? The Egyptians were polytheists. Like the Jews were in Babylon well before 'Judaism' came to be.
God wanted to show his powers were superior to the god's and goddesses of the Egyptians pantheon.

Every plague he sent upon the Egyptian people challenged the dominion of every individual Egyptian god or goddess.

After God's death angel slaughtered the first born babies , God let Pharaohs heart to soften and free his people. Blood! For a new covenant.

I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

Lord knows there are enough of those in his church who already lay at his feet everything happening in America now, and the world, is because he's mad at us now.

When he tells me everything happening is part of his plan, for his glory, I think he'll understand I will shoot to kill before I pray for man's chains around my neck because pacifists think us worthy for ticking off God.

But that's just me.
A sheep with a arsenal really shocks to awe a pack of guvmnt wolves.

Sad

 

[Bluesproverb]

Sad

Why?

 

[Beckie]

I will reply when back at the computer

 

[Beckie]

When you buy real estate, make sure you get mineral, gas, and water rights under that land to be included.

There are generators that run on natural gas that can serve everything in your house during a blackout. Just make sure you find how to bypass the gas companies shutoff so you can supply your house without government permission.

Then learn how to keep your property private and your own so the state can't take it nor execute eminent domain.

Lots of resources to assist you. Keyword search in any search engine, ''don't file deed keep private property private''.

As to guns, everyone makes a choice. Fight on your feet or serve on your knees.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.

The Jews prayed during the Holocaust. They also prayed for 600 years for a savior to free them from slavery in Egypt, after being slaves in Babylon.
When God sent that savior, Moshe-"Moses'' he had hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses arrived so Pharaoh would not be able to have a change of heart and let God's people go.
Why? The Egyptians were polytheists. Like the Jews were in Babylon well before 'Judaism' came to be.
God wanted to show his powers were superior to the god's and goddesses of the Egyptians pantheon.

Every plague he sent upon the Egyptian people challenged the dominion of every individual Egyptian god or goddess.

After God's death angel slaughtered the first born babies , God let Pharaohs heart to soften and free his people. Blood! For a new covenant.

I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

Lord knows there are enough of those in his church who already lay at his feet everything happening in America now, and the world, is because he's mad at us now.

When he tells me everything happening is part of his plan, for his glory, I think he'll understand I will shoot to kill before I pray for man's chains around my neck because pacifists think us worthy for ticking off God.

But that's just me.
A sheep with a arsenal really shocks to awe a pack of guvmnt wolves.

I will start by saying i support the 2 amendment . The way it was written was to protect the people from government.
I read the Scriptures to support self defense
Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
The Warren Commission taught me not to trust our government i was a teen.
Here are your lines i find so sad, your stated lack of trust in the Lord. By a slim margin we are still free enough to say at least here what we think. It was the Lord that protected Gods people through the plagues . We Christians are God's people. I trust Him first and foremost.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.
I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

 

[presidente]

I will start by saying i support the 2 amendment . The way it was written was to protect the people from government.
I read the Scriptures to support self defense
Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
The Warren Commission taught me not to trust our government i was a teen.
Here are your lines i find so sad, your stated lack of trust in the Lord. By a slim margin we are still free enough to say at least here what we think. It was the Lord that protected Gods people through the plagues . We Christians are God's people. I trust Him first and foremost.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.
I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

They took two swords to fulfill the scripture that they were numbered among tge transgressors. Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in the sheeth. Ever read the sermon on tge mount? How about Romans 13?

 

[Beckie]

They took two swords to fulfill the scripture that they were numbered among tge transgressors. Jesus told Peter to put the sword back in the sheeth. Ever read the sermon on tge mount? How about Romans 13?

Yup You are correct Jesus did not tell Pete to get rid of his sword.

Think of Romans 13 and time you J walk or speed just a little Maybe you could have been more honest to the IRS .

 

[presidente]

Yup You are correct Jesus did not tell Pete to get rid of his sword.

Think of Romans 13 and time you J walk or speed just a little Maybe you could have been more honest to the IRS .

I do not recall ever being dishonest with the IRS. Have you?

 

[Bluesproverb]

I will start by saying i support the 2 amendment . The way it was written was to protect the people from government.
I read the Scriptures to support self defense
Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
The Warren Commission taught me not to trust our government i was a teen.
Here are your lines i find so sad, your stated lack of trust in the Lord. By a slim margin we are still free enough to say at least here what we think. It was the Lord that protected Gods people through the plagues . We Christians are God's people. I trust Him first and foremost.

Some claim prayer is more powerful. I tend to think a hollow point stops a jackboot government thug trying to take my husband because our faith has been declared a threat to the state farm faster than asking God to stop it.
I'll spill blood to save myself and my family before I trust God to let it likely be spilled for his purpose of vengeance against the people of Israel America.

We don't know if God protected his people from the first three plagues.

He'd hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses was to arrive do they were not protected from the suffering they continued to endure as Egypt's abused slave labor force.

Exodus 8:22-23 shows God protected his people from the plague of the flies because they were on the eastern part of the Nile delta in Goshen.

While Exodus 8:17 says gnats plagued all of Egypt. God's people would have suffered that and the first three plagues when he differentiates having saved them from the fly plague later.

Those who didn't have lambs blood painted on their door would have also suffered the loss of their firstborn.

God said those who don't provide for their families have lost their faith and are worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5.

Every Christian child victim in school shootings died praying God would intercede.
The Jews to this day as they bury their dead tallied in terrorist attacks pray God will intercede. Their promised land a mere sliver in land size compared to the rest of the land where they are surrounded by their enemies.

Homeless people, truly homeless,not the lazy liars holding up s ohms hoping for tax free monies, pray every day for a better life.
Do you help? And answer their prayers as best as you can? Or do you keep walking thinking if they wanted to they could save themselves?

I make no apologies for holding to the resolve that I will drop anyone who comes to kill my family. Because if it comes to that God's answer to my prayers prior is obviously, save yourselves.

God inspired the creation of the first firearms. Jesus commanded his Disciples to buy swords! Even if they had to sell their cloaks.

All this preceding their being sent forth in the great commission.

Jesus also told Peter, after he'd cleaved off the ear if that temple guard come to arrest Jesus in Gethsemane to put up his sword.
Because those who lived by the sword would die by the sword.

He wasn't prophecying this if his Disciples. He was talking about Rome.
There in the garden both Roman soldiers and temple guards were armed and outnumbered the armed disciples.

Jesus was right too. Rome fell to the sword long years after Jesus returned to heaven.

Sometimes you have to realize God equipped us to take care of ourselves.
And sometimes people die waiting for God to do it for them.
God knows we can't afford to be a slave to faith alone in all things. That's called sloth.

 

[Beckie]

We don't know if God protected his people from the first three plagues.

He'd hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses was to arrive do they were not protected from the suffering they continued to endure as Egypt's abused slave labor force.

Exodus 8:22-23 shows God protected his people from the plague of the flies because they were on the eastern part of the Nile delta in Goshen.

While Exodus 8:17 says gnats plagued all of Egypt. God's people would have suffered that and the first three plagues when he differentiates having saved them from the fly plague later.

Those who didn't have lambs blood painted on their door would have also suffered the loss of their firstborn.

God said those who don't provide for their families have lost their faith and are worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5.

Every Christian child victim in school shootings died praying God would intercede.
The Jews to this day as they bury their dead tallied in terrorist attacks pray God will intercede. Their promised land a mere sliver in land size compared to the rest of the land where they are surrounded by their enemies.

Homeless people, truly homeless,not the lazy liars holding up s ohms hoping for tax free monies, pray every day for a better life.
Do you help? And answer their prayers as best as you can? Or do you keep walking thinking if they wanted to they could save themselves?

I make no apologies for holding to the resolve that I will drop anyone who comes to kill my family. Because if it comes to that God's answer to my prayers prior is obviously, save yourselves.

God inspired the creation of the first firearms. Jesus commanded his Disciples to buy swords! Even if they had to sell their cloaks.

All this preceding their being sent forth in the great commission.

Jesus also told Peter, after he'd cleaved off the ear if that temple guard come to arrest Jesus in Gethsemane to put up his sword.
Because those who lived by the sword would die by the sword.

He wasn't prophecying this if his Disciples. He was talking about Rome.
There in the garden both Roman soldiers and temple guards were armed and outnumbered the armed disciples.

Jesus was right too. Rome fell to the sword long years after Jesus returned to heaven.

Sometimes you have to realize God equipped us to take care of ourselves.
And sometimes people die waiting for God to do it for them.
God knows we can't afford to be a slave to faith alone in all things. That's called sloth.

I agree with some of what you say
A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in, get in!” The religous man replies, ” no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle.”

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God willgrant him a miracle.”

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down.” St. Peter chuckles and responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.”

We are going to have some differences

 

[Bluesproverb]

I agree with some of what you say
A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in, get in!” The religous man replies, ” no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle.”

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God willgrant him a miracle.”

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down.” St. Peter chuckles and responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.”

We are going to have some differences

😊 Yes, that's an old joke. How could he not see those rescuers were answer to his prayers?
A parable in itself.

 

[CS1]

LGBT Marriages

Apr. 28, 2015, the US Supreme Court in Obergefell v. Hodges concluded that gay marriage is a right guaranteed by the US Constitution.

Next big debate now that Roe has ended, many believe Obergefell should be next.

Not only was it unbiblical but is it unconstitutional?

I know where I stand but let us do a poll.

Answer and explain your answer.

I am from CA and we have fought this and the reason WHY WE ARE IN THE CONDITION WE CURRENTLY ARE WITH THIS below is :




1. the church compermised the word of God at the expense of Gods love over HIS holiness
2. The Homosexaul did not just want for two consenting adults OF THE SAME SEX to be in a relationship it was about sex with childre, and expose ing them to it and teaching them to be homosexuals.

 

[Klement]

I tend to take this one from a few positions.

The first is the position of constitutional law. So, constitutionally there's no reason gay marriage ought to be legal throughout the country.

The second is in regards to treaties. I'm not sure about the US' status on ratifying the convention on human rights but if it has been ratified then the US would have duties related to that.

The third, and arguably most important when we talk about a country where free expression and free speech enable religious or irreligious freedom, is about the secular system of governance and polity. Someone's right to do something we disagree with but which doesn't contradict constitutional axioms is sacrosanct under such a system. So, I suppose it's for me a case of "my right not to perform a gay marriage is just as valid as someone else's right to perform one", if we are respecting legal frameworks and political infrastructure.

We can believe it's immoral, but also still respect the legal idea that secular freedoms allow people to do things that are sometimes religiously immoral. That's kind of necessary (even if it's unpalatable) for a free society to remain free. The right to practice religion is predicated on the same ideology, as is the right to divorce, to eat pork and shellfish, to remarry, and so on and so forth.

I don't necessarily agree with gay marriage but I don't think it's, in and of itself, a contradiction against a secular political system either.

 

[Klement]

I tend to take this one from a few positions.

The first is the position of constitutional law. So, constitutionally there's no reason gay marriage ought to be legal throughout the country.

The second is in regards to treaties. I'm not sure about the US' status on ratifying the convention on human rights but if it has been ratified then the US would have duties related to that.

The third, and arguably most important when we talk about a country where free expression and free speech enable religious or irreligious freedom, is about the secular system of governance and polity. Someone's right to do something we disagree with but which doesn't contradict constitutional axioms is sacrosanct under such a system. So, I suppose it's for me a case of "my right not to perform a gay marriage is just as valid as someone else's right to perform one", if we are respecting legal frameworks and political infrastructure.

We can believe it's immoral, but also still respect the legal idea that secular freedoms allow people to do things that are sometimes religiously immoral. That's kind of necessary (even if it's unpalatable) for a free society to remain free. The right to practice religion is predicated on the same ideology, as is the right to divorce, to eat pork and shellfish, to remarry, and so on and so forth.

I don't necessarily agree with gay marriage but I don't think it's, in and of itself, a contradiction against a secular political system either.

Sorry to quote myself but I wanted to add to this that: let's say someone wanted to do something like eat a dog. There's no constitutional mention of eating dogs, and culturally it might be frowned upon (or maybe not, depending on the individual), but is there actually anything constitutional that prohibits eating dogs? I have lived in a former communist state now for several years where eating any animal is absolutely morally acceptable and widespread.

And if there is a constitutional argument against eating dogs, I pose to you an honest question: on what constitutional grounds is a dog any different than a cow if it comes to sustenance?

So, I think this is actually a really complicated issue especially if you believe that secular polity allows us freedoms we wouldn't otherwise have.

I read a lot recently about authoritarian persecutions in the Middle East and China, and I often wonder where we draw the line between freedom and restrictions of freedom in light of that. And I also wonder if we restrict something like gay partnership, then what stops a leftist majority from restricting OUR freedoms if they become dominant?

Surely in order to protect everyone's freedoms, we need to protect EVERYONE'S freedoms?

 

[Klement]

Sorry to quote myself but I wanted to add to this that: let's say someone wanted to do something like eat a dog. There's no constitutional mention of eating dogs, and culturally it might be frowned upon (or maybe not, depending on the individual), but is there actually anything constitutional that prohibits eating dogs? I have lived in a former communist state now for several years where eating any animal is absolutely morally acceptable and widespread.

And if there is a constitutional argument against eating dogs, I pose to you an honest question: on what constitutional grounds is a dog any different than a cow if it comes to sustenance?

So, I think this is actually a really complicated issue especially if you believe that secular polity allows us freedoms we wouldn't otherwise have.

I read a lot recently about authoritarian persecutions in the Middle East and China, and I often wonder where we draw the line between freedom and restrictions of freedom in light of that. And I also wonder if we restrict something like gay partnership, then what stops a leftist majority from restricting OUR freedoms if they become dominant?

Surely in order to protect everyone's freedoms, we need to protect EVERYONE'S freedoms?

And lastly, does the constitution function as something that expressly delimits the boundaries of everything we can do? What I mean is, if a certain claimed freedom like gay marriage is not a freedom in the constitution, then should it be banned? And if so, then wouldn't every claimed freedom not in the constitution have to be banned?

Or is the constitution interpreted only on the basis of that which it DISALLOWS? In other words, all that isn't disallowed in the constitution constitutes a freedom?

This seems to me to be the main issue with constitutional law. Nobody can decide whether or not it specifically is prohibitive or enabling. It doesn't mention gay marriage, but nor does it mention eating pork. So how do we decide whether either can be legally acceptable based upon it?

 

[Beckie]

It does not mention marriage . The purpose of the Constitution was to limit government.

 

[CS1]

I tend to take this one from a few positions.

The first is the position of constitutional law. So, constitutionally there's no reason gay marriage ought to be legal throughout the country.

The second is in regards to treaties. I'm not sure about the US' status on ratifying the convention on human rights but if it has been ratified then the US would have duties related to that.

The third, and arguably most important when we talk about a country where free expression and free speech enable religious or irreligious freedom, is about the secular system of governance and polity. Someone's right to do something we disagree with but which doesn't contradict constitutional axioms is sacrosanct under such a system. So, I suppose it's for me a case of "my right not to perform a gay marriage is just as valid as someone else's right to perform one", if we are respecting legal frameworks and political infrastructure.

We can believe it's immoral, but also still respect the legal idea that secular freedoms allow people to do things that are sometimes religiously immoral. That's kind of necessary (even if it's unpalatable) for a free society to remain free. The right to practice religion is predicated on the same ideology, as is the right to divorce, to eat pork and shellfish, to remarry, and so on and so forth.

I don't necessarily agree with gay marriage but I don't think it's, in and of itself, a contradiction against a secular political system either.

the problem is what the founding fathers said pertaining to that "Document" and the context of it.

John Adams said :

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"

JOB 8:13-15

those who forget God have no hope. They are like rushes without any mire to grow in; or grass without water to keep it alive. Suddenly it begins to wither, even before it is cut. 14 A man without God is trusting in a spider’s web. Everything he counts on will collapse. 15 If he counts on his home for security, it won’t last.

Pslams 9:17

"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God."