Nicodemus

[Webers.Home]

.
Not every Jew managing to survive the Tribulation will be allowed access to
Messiah's theocratic kingdom. They'll have to pass an evaluation first.

● Ezek 20:33-38 …As I live-- testifies The Lord God --I will reign over you
with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with overflowing
fury. With a strong hand and an outstretched arm and overflowing fury I will
bring you out from the Gentiles and gather you from the lands where you
are scattered, and I will bring you into the wilderness of the Gentiles; and
there I will enter into judgment with you face to face.

. . . As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the
land of Egypt, so will I enter into judgment with you-- testifies The Lord
God. I will make you pass under the shepherd's staff, and I will bring you
into the bond of the covenant. I will remove from you those who rebel and
transgress against Me; I will take them out of the countries where they
sojourn, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you shall know that
I am The Lord.

It's been my own personal experience that the average Jew honestly
considers themselves righteous enough to get thru a face to face with The
Lord God. Well, just think back to the time when God entered into judgment
with the Jews when He brought them out of Egypt. How many adults over
the age of 20 entered the promised land? Only two: Joshua and Caleb. Not
even Moses himself made the cut; nor even Bezalel and Oholiab, the two
artificers endowed with special skills and aptitudes by God's own spirit.

And remember the Jews who were killed by snake venom when they
complained about manna? And the entire family of Korah the Levite, and his
allies, who were incinerated and swallowed down into the ground alive when
it split open and they all fell in? And the Jewish men who were slain for
fathering children by pagan women in the incident with Balaam, the prophet
for profit?

One's biological Jewishness is not an eo ipso guarantee they'll make the cut
and partake of the benefits of Isa 11:1-14, Ezk 36:28-38), Mic 4:1-7, and
Joel 2:19-27.

● Dan 12:1-2 . .At that time, the great prince, Michael, who stands beside
the sons of your people, will appear. It will be a time of trouble, the like of
which has never been since the nation came into being. At that time, your
people will be rescued, all who are found inscribed in the book. Many of
those that sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life,
others to reproaches, to everlasting abhorrence.
_

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Question I have, wasn't Nicodemus already a believer in Jesus and the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

I do not know that Nicodemus was a "believer in Jesus" at the time Nicodemus sought out Jesus to ask questions.

John 3:1-2 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews. He referred to Jesus as a teacher come from God. Nicodemus did not recognize the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah.

In John 7, when the pharisees sent officers to apprehend Jesus, the officers came back without Jesus, and they were questioned why they didn't bring Jesus with them, Nicodemas advocated in defense of the officers:

John 7:45-51 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him? But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed. Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,) Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

While there is no telling from the record in John 7 whether Nicodemus was a "believer in Jesus", by the time the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Nicodemus took a stand along with Joseph of Arimathaea (who was a disciple of Jesus but secretly because of fear of the Jews). We are told in Luke 23:51 that Joseph of Arimathaea had not consented to the crucifixion ... not sure if the same holds true of Nicodemus ... but the fact that Nicodemus was with Joseph to bury Jesus (John 19:39-40) leads me to believe that by the time of the crucifixion, Nicodemus was a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How does one see the Kingdom of God. Isnt tne Kingdom of God the 1000 reign??

In Matthew 3, John Baptist preached the kingdom of heaven:

Matthew 3:1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

After John was put in prison, Jesus preached the kingdom of God:

Mark 1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

the words "is at hand" in Matt 3:2 and Mark 1:15 are translated from the Greek word eggízō = has drawn close (come near).

1448 (eggízō) occurs 14 times in the Greek perfect tense (indicative mood) in the NT which expresses "extreme closeness, immediate imminence – even a presence ('It is here') because the moment of this coming happened (i.e. at the beginning of Jesus' ministry)" (J. Schlosser).​

HELPS Word-studies​

From Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges:

The principal meanings of the Kingdom of Heaven in N. T. are (1) The presence of Christ on earth. (2) His Second Advent. (3) His influence in the heart. (4) Christianity, (a) as a Church, (b) as a faith. (5) The life eternal.​

.

 

[Omegatime]

.
Not every Jew managing to survive the Tribulation will be allowed access to
Messiah's theocratic kingdom. They'll have to pass an evaluation first.

● Ezek 20:33-38 …As I live-- testifies The Lord God --I will reign over you
with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with overflowing
fury. With a strong hand and an outstretched arm and overflowing fury I will
bring you out from the Gentiles and gather you from the lands where you
are scattered, and I will bring you into the wilderness of the Gentiles; and
there I will enter into judgment with you face to face.

. . . As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the
land of Egypt, so will I enter into judgment with you-- testifies The Lord
God. I will make you pass under the shepherd's staff, and I will bring you
into the bond of the covenant. I will remove from you those who rebel and
transgress against Me; I will take them out of the countries where they
sojourn, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you shall know that
I am The Lord.

It's been my own personal experience that the average Jew honestly
considers themselves righteous enough to get thru a face to face with The
Lord God. Well, just think back to the time when God entered into judgment
with the Jews when He brought them out of Egypt. How many adults over
the age of 20 entered the promised land? Only two: Joshua and Caleb. Not
even Moses himself made the cut; nor even Bezalel and Oholiab, the two
artificers endowed with special skills and aptitudes by God's own spirit.

And remember the Jews who were killed by snake venom when they
complained about manna? And the entire family of Korah the Levite, and his
allies, who were incinerated and swallowed down into the ground alive when
it split open and they all fell in? And the Jewish men who were slain for
fathering children by pagan women in the incident with Balaam, the prophet
for profit?

One's biological Jewishness is not an eo ipso guarantee they'll make the cut
and partake of the benefits of Isa 11:1-14, Ezk 36:28-38), Mic 4:1-7, and
Joel 2:19-27.

● Dan 12:1-2 . .At that time, the great prince, Michael, who stands beside
the sons of your people, will appear. It will be a time of trouble, the like of
which has never been since the nation came into being. At that time, your
people will be rescued, all who are found inscribed in the book. Many of
those that sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life,
others to reproaches, to everlasting abhorrence.
_

IMO the timing of that rescue of those inside the Tribulation is at Rev 14:14

15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

John 3: 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”

Question I have, wasn't Nicodemus already a believer in Jesus and the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

Your thoughts

He certainly was a curious seeker, but the Scriptures don't even hint that he was saved until after Jesus' death when he helped Joseph of Aramathea bury Jesus. Even then, we don't know about his faith. Your question can't be answered from the Bible.

 

[oyster67]

John 3: 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”

Question I have, wasn't Nicodemus already a believer in Jesus and the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

Your thoughts

The context tells us exactly who Nicodemus was (and why he came by night)...

John 3:1 Context
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

He certainly was...

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[Omegatime]

.
● 1Cor 15:50 . . Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit
the kingdom of God

It's my understanding that the millennial phase of Messiah's theocratic
kingdom will be populated by a number of Tribulation survivors who will live
normal lives; including the raising of children who can all expect to live long
and prosper. (Isa 65:19-23)

Not everyone in the millennial phase of Messiah's theocratic kingdom will be
Spirit-born as can be readily seen by the rebellion towards the end organized
by the Devil. (Rev 20:7-9)
_

I agree about your view of the kingdom but every one in the kingdom will know the Lord so it is not by faith any longer.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's hard to say definitively, but I would lean to him not being saved before their discussion. The evidence for me is that his understanding was merely natural and not spiritual. When he was told he needed to be born again, he responded concerning a natural birth.
This wasn't uncommon and the gospel of John is rife with examples.

Chapter 2...the people wanted to make Jesus king, not recognizing His kingdom is not of this world.

Chapter 3...Nicodemus.

Chapter 4...the woman at the well who was wondering where the physical place was where worship should be, not realizing worship is in spirit and truth.

Chapter 5...the disciples who didn't realize Jesus food was spiritual and to do the will of the Father.

Chapter 6...the people wanted to know what the works of God were so they could do them, not realizing the work of God was merely to believe.

Nicodemus no doubt realized the works Jesus did as those only God could do. But he didn't seem to understand that salvation would never come by the law but by a supernatural transaction between God and an individual. But he was drawn to Christ and I think he probably got saved.

All that to say...it was most certainly about salvation. Nicodemus may not have started there, but Jesus clearly took him there.

Amen brother !!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree about your view of the kingdom but every one in the kingdom will know the Lord so it is not by faith any longer.

Knowing Jesus comes first he is the door into life you have to hear what he says in order to ever have any faith, and you come to know him by hearing and believing the gospel that’s all about him

 

[Omegatime]

Knowing Jesus comes first he is the door into life you have to hear what he says in order to ever have any faith, and you come to know him by hearing and believing the gospel that’s all about him

16 Then every one that survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths. 17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain upon them. 18 And if the family of Egypt do not go up and present themselves, then upon them shall[e] come the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the feast of booths. 19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the feast of booths.

 

[Cameron143]

16 Then every one that survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths. 17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain upon them. 18 And if the family of Egypt do not go up and present themselves, then upon them shall[e] come the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the feast of booths. 19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the feast of booths.

Where is this quotation from?

 

[JohnDB]

John 3: 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”

Question I have, wasn't Nicodemus already a believer in Jesus and the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

Your thoughts

You are exactly correct.
"Genethe anothen " is the Greek translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic conversation that they were having.

The Gospel of John starts out with the theme of Father/Son relationships and who a person was when born. (Keep an eye on 1:12).

Jewish culture was what we call a Caste Based Society. Basically you were born into a social class and group. Be it Levite that would work in the Temple or synagogues or up north in one of the more agricultural (and wealthier) 12 tribes. But the classifications went further. The Torah is part of the Tenakh but the Tenakh is not the LAW. (Tenakh is Law, history, songs, wisdom, and prophets)
Then the prophets and etc were further classified....there was a group of individuals that were prophesied about before they were born that would help God and Israel accomplish tasks. They were called people who were "born from above" or in Koine Greek: genethe anothen. (Samuel, Jacob, and even Sampson)

Remember the prophesy in Isaiah:
"He came unto his own but his own received him not."?
There's another one that discussed the very few people that would believe the Messiah. (People prophesied about long before they were born)

So Jesus said that Nicodemus was "Born From Above"...and all the rights and responsibilities that go along with that title.

But Nicodemus feels like a normal person and doesn't understand how he can be special. So very different from all the other Jews.

 

[Omegatime]

Where is this quotation from?

Zechariah 14

 

[Cameron143]

Zechariah 14

Thanks

 

[Nehemiah6]

So Jesus said that Nicodemus was "Born From Above"...and all the rights and responsibilities that go along with that title.

Actually that is not what Jesus said. He simply said that Nicodemus (and by extension the whole human race) must be born again. Nicodemus did become a disciple of Christ later on on. As to the rights and responsibilities, those were discussed by the apostles in the rest of the NT.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I guess you are saying --Nicodemus didnt say the right words?

Nicodemus was puzzled by talk of the New Birth at that time. So this is what he said: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

 

[JohnDB]

Actually that is not what Jesus said. He simply said that Nicodemus (and by extension the whole human race) must be born again. Nicodemus did become a disciple of Christ later on on. As to the rights and responsibilities, those were discussed by the apostles in the rest of the NT.

Use the more modern expression "oh? You gotta be one of the born from above" instead of "you have need to be...." because "you have need to be" is NOT there....
And
Because that's more in line with what was written....

"Born again" theology was started in the late 60's and early '70's as part of a marketing campaign for the revival "tent meetings" that were ongoing across America.

Also the "Son of God" , Son of Satan, Son of Heaven, (Bene Elohim) Sons of God is an ongoing theme in these chapters of John's Gospel.

The "Born again" marketing phrase doesn't fit the context or any Old Testament reference....and Jesus was chuck full of references and allusions to the Old Testament. It was a mistranslation by Tyndale and by tradition this error has been perpetuated. There's a footnote in every Bible covering that....and for good reason! The Anthropology studies support the reading I explained and not the "Born again" stuff of the 70's.

The chapter is incredible as it stands...Nicodemus doesn't remember or understand the prophesy and that he is trying to make friendly gestures with God. (Night is social hours in the big cities)

Nicodemus is "one of the two" that votes against convicting Jesus and is with Joseph of Aramathea to claim Jesus's body and prepare it for burial.

 

[Moses_Young]

He certainly was a curious seeker, but the Scriptures don't even hint that he was saved until after Jesus' death when he helped Joseph of Aramathea bury Jesus. Even then, we don't know about his faith. Your question can't be answered from the Bible.

Strange act for an enemy of Christ to arrange for Jesus' body to be buried, especially when it was at odds with his own sect who had organised for Jesus to be crucified. I think this is the reason most Christians presume Nicodemus became a believer.

 

[Fundaamental]

Strange act for an enemy of Christ to arrange for Jesus' body to be buried, especially when it was at odds with his own sect who had organised for Jesus to be crucified. I think this is the reason most Christians presume Nicodemus became a believer.

to be honest friend something doesn't sit right with me


His name Nicodemus

Satan is referred to as old nick

And satan is referred to as demon which isn't far short of demus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

His name Nicodemus Satan is referred to as old nick And satan is referred to as demon which isn't far short of demus.

Where did you come up with this nonsense?

 

[hornetguy]

John 3: 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”

Question I have, wasn't Nicodemus already a believer in Jesus and the Lord wasnt teaching how to be saved?

Your thoughts

I don't think you could call him a believer in Jesus, quite. He obviously knew who Jesus was, and he believed he came from God, but he didn't know how to "join" or "accept" Jesus... how to become a disciple.. It's one thing to know of someone, but it takes more to know someone.
This is why Jesus was explaining the concept of being born again to him... it was a totally new thing..