No gentile has ever been under Mosaic law
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How many times did Yeshua said they should stone people? Did He not live Torah perfectly to be the perfect sacrifice? 
It is our understanding of the Law that is flawed. We have a tendency to judge and that is not different from what Israel did. There were reasons why YHVH instructed His people to be killed when they turned away from the Law.
God bless my friend.
It is our understanding of the Law that is flawed. We have a tendency to judge and that is not different from what Israel did. There were reasons why YHVH instructed His people to be killed when they turned away from the Law.
God bless my friend.
Rom 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(MY NOTE: The curses the law deals out for non-compliance. Only apply to those who are under it's covenant. No one reading this thread has ever been under the law covenant cut between God & Israel at Mt Sinai)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: The law teaches/exposes sin & by doing so, condemns the sinner to death)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: People become righteous before God thru Faith placed in Jesus sin redemptive WORK & resurrection. Not thru their own good works/law keeping)
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: Jesus Christ is the Lord our righteousness (Jer 33:16, 1 Cor 1:30, 2 Cor 5:1, Rom 1:17)
Rom 4:
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
(MY NOTE: The law produced wrath not love. When Christ removes ALL the believers sin. They are white as snow & guilty of ZERO transgressions. Unlike daily never ending temple animal sacrifices. Jesus God blood is an eternal cleaner (Heb 10:1-12).
Rom 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(MY NOTE: Context here is Israel see vrs 1&2. These law keeping Israeli ignorantly rejected Christ righteous sin payment & resurrection. Missed god's grace by trying to achieve righteousness by self motivated good works/law keeping.)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(MY NOTE:
Fundamentally, Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.
The point of this tread & my main question is:
If the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified, condemns without mercy unto death, was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival (Lk 16:16, Gal 3:9).
Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers under Mosaic laws yoke of condemnation?
Rom 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Best wishes, JJ
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Please consider the following and let me know what you think.
What is required for Salvation?
1. The Removal of the Adam / Eve Curse, which ultimately, points to the Sin Nature. - No problem. God / Christ can do that to whomever they desire, and this is not dependent upon the Cross.
2. The sending of the Holy Spirit. This can be done independently of the Cross.
3. Christ grants the ability to Repent. This does not depend upon the Cross.
4. Jesus dying on the Cross is the one-time act that pays the penalty of sins. This is tricky, for the offering of animal sacrifice actually provides expiation for sins. What animal sacrifice does [not] do, is remove the Curse of the Sinful Nature. Christ alone, as it seems, is the one who performs this Holy act.
The above is considered the "Work" of Christ.
One thing that I find interesting in the Bible is the idea that the Patriarch of old looked forward to Christ, for it seems that in Christ, all who had died in the past would have the chance to put their faith in Christ (the benefit of dying before the first Days of Christ.
This idea is as below (combining the two passage sets together):
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Matthew 27:50-53 NLT - 50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. 53 They left the cemetery after Jesus' resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people.
What is required for Salvation?
1. The Removal of the Adam / Eve Curse, which ultimately, points to the Sin Nature. - No problem. God / Christ can do that to whomever they desire, and this is not dependent upon the Cross.
2. The sending of the Holy Spirit. This can be done independently of the Cross.
3. Christ grants the ability to Repent. This does not depend upon the Cross.
4. Jesus dying on the Cross is the one-time act that pays the penalty of sins. This is tricky, for the offering of animal sacrifice actually provides expiation for sins. What animal sacrifice does [not] do, is remove the Curse of the Sinful Nature. Christ alone, as it seems, is the one who performs this Holy act.
The above is considered the "Work" of Christ.
One thing that I find interesting in the Bible is the idea that the Patriarch of old looked forward to Christ, for it seems that in Christ, all who had died in the past would have the chance to put their faith in Christ (the benefit of dying before the first Days of Christ.
This idea is as below (combining the two passage sets together):
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Matthew 27:50-53 NLT - 50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. 53 They left the cemetery after Jesus' resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people.
You are misapplying Luke 16:16. That verse does not mean Jews do not have to be preached the Law once Christ arrived on Earth. Otherwise, what James and the elders stated in Acts 21:20-25 would be silly.
Luke 16:16 meant the Law and the Prophets prophesied about the coming Messiah who will usher Israel into the promised kingdom of God on earth (2 Samuel 7).
Once Jesus finally arrived in the flesh, the good news of the kingdom of heaven is now "at hand".
Luke 16:16 meant the Law and the Prophets prophesied about the coming Messiah who will usher Israel into the promised kingdom of God on earth (2 Samuel 7).
Once Jesus finally arrived in the flesh, the good news of the kingdom of heaven is now "at hand".
Matt 26:28 (AMP) For this is My blood of the new covenant, which [[f]ratifies the agreement and] is [g]being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matt 26:28 (KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Law keeping never provided sin remission/pardon/forgiveness, water baptism never provided sin remission/pardon, repentance never provided sin remission/forgiveness, obedience never provided sin forgiveness, sabbath observance never provided sin pardon/forgiveness, tithing doesn't provide sin remission/pardon/forgiveness etc.
Only faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection can remove the sin stain from one's soul.
1 Gospel with dispensational administrations. Salvation has always been provided by grace through faith.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...different-gospels.197390/page-24#post-4497708
Matt 26:28 (KJV) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Law keeping never provided sin remission/pardon/forgiveness, water baptism never provided sin remission/pardon, repentance never provided sin remission/forgiveness, obedience never provided sin forgiveness, sabbath observance never provided sin pardon/forgiveness, tithing doesn't provide sin remission/pardon/forgiveness etc.
Only faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection can remove the sin stain from one's soul.
1 Gospel with dispensational administrations. Salvation has always been provided by grace through faith.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...different-gospels.197390/page-24#post-4497708
That's not what the bible says:
Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
It was not the Law but faith in what the Law does that pardoned them.
Jesus can do nothing for your salvation if you do not turn to Him just like the Law was a dead instrument if you didn't turn away from your sins. We are saved in grace by faith. Always worked this way
Jesus can do nothing for your salvation if you do not turn to Him
just like the Law was a dead instrument if you didn't turn away from your sins. We are saved in grace by faith. Always worked this way
This leaves out all boasting on the part of the recipient. His delivery was not the result of some "free will choice" that he made, no, it was totally and wholly God's work - alone.
1st: Leviticus verses you posted only applied to those under Mosaic law covenant & DID NOT provide salvation!
They only covered &, national Israel only, for 1 year. Any personal sin offering brought to the Temple, only covered the sin it was brought for. It's not until the ultimate sin sacrifice (Christ) was made. That ALL these covered sins were completely taken away.
2nd: Sin REMISSION = full pardon/total forgiveness & is only found in Christ (Acts 4:12)
Hebrews 9:
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Only Christ's blood can SAVE!)
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
(MY NOTE: The blood of bulls & goats & the ashes of an heifer could only purify flesh, NOT, Save a Soul.)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(MY NOTE: Christ had to die & rise to redeem anyone's before they could receive the promise of eternal salvation)
Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(MY NOTE: This law you promote, was only a foreshadow of Christ's ultimate Once for All Time sacrifice. See Heb 10:10)
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
(MY NOTE: The blood of bulls & goats only covered & DID NOT provide REMISSION/take away sins)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(MY NOTE: For any believer in Christ's sin sacrifice & resurrection Full REMISSION/complete forgiveness is provided.
BTW: When an Israeli brought a sin sacrifice for himself. The priest inspected the offering for blemishes (he knew why you were there & didn't ask what you'd done. You placed your hands onto the offering, confessed your sin to the Lord, took the knife & killed the sacrifice & the priest did the rest.
Finally, under this law covenant cut between the Lord & Israel only! When someone brought a personal sin sacrifice, that 1 sin was covered/forgiven. You stood guilty for every sin after that until you brought another sacrifice. Christ is the believers Once for All Time guilt remover. Shalom, JJ
They only covered &, national Israel only, for 1 year. Any personal sin offering brought to the Temple, only covered the sin it was brought for. It's not until the ultimate sin sacrifice (Christ) was made. That ALL these covered sins were completely taken away.
2nd: Sin REMISSION = full pardon/total forgiveness & is only found in Christ (Acts 4:12)
Hebrews 9:
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Only Christ's blood can SAVE!)
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
(MY NOTE: The blood of bulls & goats & the ashes of an heifer could only purify flesh, NOT, Save a Soul.)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(MY NOTE: Christ had to die & rise to redeem anyone's before they could receive the promise of eternal salvation)
Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(MY NOTE: This law you promote, was only a foreshadow of Christ's ultimate Once for All Time sacrifice. See Heb 10:10)
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
(MY NOTE: The blood of bulls & goats only covered & DID NOT provide REMISSION/take away sins)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(MY NOTE: For any believer in Christ's sin sacrifice & resurrection Full REMISSION/complete forgiveness is provided.
BTW: When an Israeli brought a sin sacrifice for himself. The priest inspected the offering for blemishes (he knew why you were there & didn't ask what you'd done. You placed your hands onto the offering, confessed your sin to the Lord, took the knife & killed the sacrifice & the priest did the rest.
Finally, under this law covenant cut between the Lord & Israel only! When someone brought a personal sin sacrifice, that 1 sin was covered/forgiven. You stood guilty for every sin after that until you brought another sacrifice. Christ is the believers Once for All Time guilt remover. Shalom, JJ
There were people from other nations also present at Mt Sinai
BTW:
No one was under this covenant before they reach Sinai & no one is under it after Jesus tears the Temple veil in 1/2. Matt 27:51.
Read Ex 19:8 & my note below.
Point:
Rom 3:
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: The law teaches/exposes sin & by doing so, condemns the sinner to death)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: People become righteous before God thru Faith placed in Jesus, faithful, obedient sin redemptive WORK & resurrection. Not thru their own good works or law keeping)
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: We access His imputed righteousness thru faith placed in Him/His faithful/obedient/righteous redemptive work. Found in His sinless death, burial & resurrection. Jesus Christ is the Lord our righteousness (Jer 33:16, 1 Cor 1:30, 2 Cor 5:1, Rom 1:17).
Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.
The problem isn't the Law, it's our adamic sin nature.
Main Point:
So, if the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified, condemns a sinner, without mercy unto death.
Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers (who aren't under Mosaic law Rom 6:14, Acts 15:24) under Mosaic laws yoke of condemnation?
Rom 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Best wishes, JJ
Reread Ex 19:8
Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
(MY NOTE: God chose Israel to be a Nation of Priests, to teach ALL the world His ways).
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: "ALL" the people answered & said, "ALL" that the Lord hath spoken WE WILL DO! They could have said no & left, yet, THEY ALL AGREED to the words the Lord had spoken. So, anyone that wasn't part of the House of Jacob when they left Egypt, was now, by choice, part of this Sinai covenant.)