No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Magenta]

And that somehow unregenerate men can learn of the invisible father without the spirit teaching them.

You lie deliberately. Not surprising given your CDS.

The Spirit teaches through the Spirit which the unregenerated do not have.

The natural man cannot learn what it can neither receive nor comprehend.

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[sawdust]

This is not true. Romans witnesses that all men hear the spirit witnessing through creation, and Jesus said that unregenerate men are taught of the father by the spirit to lead them to Christ. My own experience bears this out to be true

Not from the source of their own intellect or spirituality. The issue isn't whether God initiates the introductions, but whether man can know God from his own inner sources. The reality is he is born without a spiritual life which is needed to know God and he has an error in the body which deceives the mind keeping him from the truth. Grace overcomes both of these things. How man responds is up to him.

Rom.1:19
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

 

[Blue155]

It began right below your post. They think that somehow men know about God through creation without the spirit of truth witnessing to them. And that somehow unregenerate men can learn of the invisible father without the spirit teaching them.

Hmm…interesting..so how can totally depraved man know about God through His creation, yet still be depraved that they cannot seek or know about God when they know about Him through creation?

 

[Magenta]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)

 

[Magenta]

Hmm…interesting..so how can totally depraved man know about God through His creation, yet still be depraved that they cannot seek or know about God when they know about Him through creation?

Knowing God exists does not automatically translate into seeking Him.

Have you heard that people suppress the truth in unrighteousness? Hmmm. I think not.

It all seems to come as a major surprise to you that men naturally disobey God.

It started with Adam. The very first man.

Genesis 2 verse 17 You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.

 

[sawdust]

It began right below your post. They think that somehow men know about God through creation without the spirit of truth witnessing to them. And that somehow unregenerate men can learn of the invisible father without the spirit teaching them.

If you think I'm a Calvinist after saying to forget all their rubbish, makes me wonder if you are actually reading what is said? This was the post directly below.

Forget Calvin or Tulip or Reformed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Not from the source of their own intellect or spirituality. The issue isn't whether God initiates the introductions, but whether man can know God from his own inner sources. The reality is he is born without a spiritual life which is needed to know God and he has an error in the body which deceives the mind keeping him from the truth. Grace overcomes both of these things. How man responds is up to him.

Rom.1:19
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

No man, not even Adam could know God from himself. His spirit communed with God's spirit. All men have a spirit that's alive and able to hear God, but they can't be one with God because of sin. It's like a vibrating tuning fork that starts another tuning fork of the same frequency vibrating when it gets close. It's the same thing with God and men whose hearts are tuned to his frequency.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If you think I'm a Calvinist after saying to forget all their rubbish, makes me wonder if you are actually reading what is said? This was the post directly below.

Your post isn't right below his post, so I was not referring to it.

 

[sawdust]

No man, not even Adam could know God from himself. His spirit communed with God's spirit. All men have a spirit that's alive and able to hear God, but they can't be one with God because of sin. It's like a vibrating tuning fork that starts another tuning fork of the same frequency vibrating when it gets close. It's the same thing with God and men whose hearts are tuned to his frequency.

Then why does the Spirit need to generate a spirit for man? He is not generating Himself or eternal life or any other thing man wants to imagine, it is quite specific. He gives birth to spirit. Without that spirit man has no capacity to hear God. If God did not step into the breach, man would remain deaf and blind.

Jn.3:6
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[sawdust]

Your post isn't right below his post, so I was not referring to it.

Ah sorry. The post in question was from someone I have on ignore so didn't see it. I appreciate the correction.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then why does the Spirit need to generate a spirit for man? He is not generating Himself or eternal life or any other thing man wants to imagine, it is quite specific. He gives birth to spirit. Without that spirit man has no capacity to hear God. If God did not step into the breach, man would remain deaf and blind.

Jn.3:6
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

He doesn't make a new spirit. He creates a new heart by cleansing it so the holy spirit can dwell in it and commune with and teach man's spirit. The holy spirit is the new spirit in man communing with man's spirit

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Hmm…interesting..so how can totally depraved man know about God through His creation, yet still be depraved that they cannot seek or know about God when they know about Him through creation?

One of the unending contradictions

 

[Magenta]

No man, not even Adam could know God from himself. His spirit communed with God's spirit. All men have a spirit that's alive and able to hear God, but they can't be one with God because of sin. It's like a vibrating tuning fork that starts another tuning fork of the same frequency vibrating when it gets close. It's the same thing with God and men whose hearts are tuned to his frequency.

You contradict Jesus repeatedly. I wonder why. Oh. You are deceived.

His sheep hear His voice.

 

[Magenta]

He doesn't make a new spirit. He creates a new heart by cleansing it so the holy spirit can dwell in it and commune with and teach man's spirit. The holy spirit is the new spirit in man communing with man's spirit

LOL. Cart before horse again. You believe man's heart is cleansed after he believes so he can believe. Tell us another one.

His incurably wicked heart is cleansed so that he can believe. Obedience follows.

You put obedience first.

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14

 

[Magenta]

John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[sawdust]

He doesn't make a new spirit. He creates a new heart by cleansing it so the holy spirit can dwell in it and commune with and teach man's spirit. The holy spirit is the new spirit in man communing with man's spirit

But there is nothing wrong with man's heart at birth. It is neutral knowing neither good or evil. The heart is a function of the soul, not the spirit. It requires thought because it is the place we hold our treasures, what we value in life ergo, it is made new through transformation of thought, not birth. Nor does it say He gives birth to a new heart and He certainly does not give birth to Himself so the Holy Spirit is not the new spirit. There is no evidence the Holy Spirit dwelt within any one until the Church age. He would come upon men, but no evidence of indwelling their bodies. Why would He, there was an external temple or men would build altars.

If the heart is cleansed at the new birth why do we retain all the knowledge of our sin or, at times, prefer our sin? Why are we still ignorant of God's many truths? If the heart has to be completely cleansed, how do men follow God's drawing process? Their heart must be longing for something God is showing them even before the new heart as you suggest. The heart is not the problem, except for those who don't like what God is showing them and would rather suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

The Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in the new heart, He dwells in the body. He fills the heart, soul, mind body etc as we believe on the word or if we reject God's truth then He is filling nothing and we are walking after our flesh. He graciously overlooks our ignorance so we don't lose the filling of the Spirit at every sin we commit but only those times we know it is a sin and fail to rest in faith.

 

[sawdust]

Hmm…interesting..so how can totally depraved man know about God through His creation, yet still be depraved that they cannot seek or know about God when they know about Him through creation?

Because total depravity is what we would become if not for the grace of God, it is not how we are born. Only those who constantly and consistently reject God's grace become totally depraved which, is why they join Satan in the lake of fire.

 

[sawdust]

No man, not even Adam could know God from himself. His spirit communed with God's spirit.

Yes but that spirit Adam used to commune with God was innate. He was spiritually alive, we are born dead, spiritually. God must act as our spirit until such time as we are born again.

 

[Blue155]

One of the unending contradictions

It makes no sense. They really don’t know how stupid it sounds in the bigger picture. When you seek TRUTH and know TRUTH…. then false doctrine sticks out like a sore thumb. It is ridiculous to think that God would make a creature in his image that was not able to respond to him. It is literally a doctrine that turns people into robots…. And it would make the love that one would give God not genuine.

 

[Magenta]

One of the unending contradictions

Creation attests to God's existence, which you conflate with Spiritual understanding.

Creation does not proclaim the gospel, which is heard as foolishness by the natural man.

Spiritual revelation reveals Who God is to individuals. This is explicitly articulated in Scripture.

On the one hand you affirm it. On the other hand you deny it.

Behold the fruit of your CDS. You contradict yourself and speak with a split tongue.

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.