Noah’s ark and faith

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes. And I responded to the "if". When God spoke to Abraham (Gen 15:1), it was "the Word of the LORD" who appeared to him in a vision. But when three strangers (men) appeared outside Abraham's tent and he entertained them, this was not a vision but a visitation. One of those men was God (Jesus) who promised Sarah a son.

We know from John 1:1-3 that that "the Word" was the pre-incarnate Christ. So why would it not be reasonable to believe that "the Word" appeared to Noah as a Man and spoke to him directly? There must have been an extended discussion about the construction of the Ark. Perhaps a "blueprint" was created so that everything would be constructed meticulously. Specific directions would have been given as to where to obtain the gopher wood and the pitch, and where to locate the Ark. These are all reasonable assumptions.

Jesus and his two witnesses

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Genesis 18:1‭-‬2 KJV
Wtnesses always agree and also they observe things

And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? ( As of 3 in agreement)

And he said, Behold, in the tent. And he said,( as of the Lord who is one ) I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Genesis 18:9‭-‬10 KJV


Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Zechariah 4:11‭-‬12‭, ‬14 KJV


..nd it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luke 9:28‭-‬31‭, ‬34‭-‬35 KJV

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They are the same!! I assure you why would they be different, this is a known fact. Please explain then the differences using scriptures. they are synonymous that is all.

Blessings.

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa, and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:1‭-‬2 KJV

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 4:17 KJV

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for their's is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:3 KJV

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mark 1:14‭-‬15 KJV


But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luke 12:31 KJV

and heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luke 10:9 KJV

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 10:7 KJV


They just use different words like people so when they write

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Surely you’re not saying Noah was saved by means other than the shed blood of Jesus. I say that Noah was not saved like you and I. Noah obeyed God by faith and the best that could gain a man prior to the cross was safe from God’s wrath resting in Abraham’s bosom upon death.

You are extremely opposed to doing what God said bieng of value to ones living soul you shouldn't diminish what God said it's all true if you can't agree your the one that needs to repent and agree with Jesus views on salvation otherwise it's not faith

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Would Noah have known the story of Adam and Eve. If so, he knew of the promised redeemer and the shed blood. He would have been Messianic...he would have been anticipating Christ.

If he was preaching righteousness he was preaching Christ

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A couple of things...
What verse or verses are you wanting me to consider in Luke?
The verses in 1 Corinthians you cited only mention the Roman authorities and they wouldn't have done it because of the wrath that was coming their way for mistreating Jesus.
Satan knows the Bible better than you and I do. While he may not have understood fully, I'm pretty sure He knows the serpent getting its head crushed is Him.
And while I have enjoyed the polite conversation and the back and forth, I don't feel like the trenches are going to move. But I have learned a different perspective and your respectful manner of sharing has been refreshing.

Satan knows the Bible better than you and I do.


Amen he uses Gods word of truth to kill man by deceiving them with other so called truths

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 2:16‭-‬17 KJV

Of all God said to Adam before all the blessing in genesis 1 an an above there Satan uses the warning of death to cause it for them


And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Genesis 3:4‭-‬6 KJV


Now they are condemned to death by Gods word spoken to keep them from death. Satan knows his word and knows it's always going to be fulfilled he uses it to cause sin and death and man keeps choosing to hear him rather than god

 

[Cameron143]

If he was preaching righteousness he was preaching Christ

Aaaaamen.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Agreed, Paul's epistles contain not only how to be saved, but how to go on to live the crucified life. But the gospel unto salvation is very simple...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, what he accomplished at the cross.

Yes so simple that here's just one gospel so people don't get confused

Jesus the lord first preaches it long ago then men like Paul because jesus gave him his spirit .


Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip

. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord( Jesus not Paul)

, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; (all the apostles role)

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?( Holy ghosts role)
Hebrews 2:1‭-‬4 KJV

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You know very well what happens to people who disobey GOD, I ask you why this question?

Making sure I wasn't talking about modern age faith that requires one to never do anything God said

 

[John146]

There are three heavens... one of them cannot be a created place, because it is God's abode.

We are talking about the earthly kingdom of heaven that was created in the beginning. This is where Christ will rule as King of kings in Jerusalem from David's throne. It has been promised by God and preached by Jesus.

 

[John146]

Why isn't that spiritual language to you?

Why take it spiritually and not literally? The passage does not allow for spiritual. To fit a narrative?

 

[John146]

Dear John,
Jesus suffering was not a hidden fact, it was was prophesied in the OT by isaiah see chap 53, Jesus suffered the worst possible death and torture because of Satan , Satan knew all of this, Satan can only do what is allowed by the lord and no more, else we would all be dead already! the words of Paul are difficult to understand please believe in the words of Jesus he is THE ONLY the way to life.

Blessings

Yes, as we look back we can see the pictures and types. The cross was a mystery until after it happened. The Jews were not looking forward to their Messiah dying on a cross for the sins of the world.

 

[John146]

GOD reigns over his kingdom, therefore the kingdom of God is the Kingdom of heaven

Ok, thanks for your opinion. Things that are different are not the same.

 

[Magenta]

We are talking about the earthly kingdom of heaven that was created in the beginning. This is where Christ will
rule as King of kings in Jerusalem from David's throne. It has been promised by God and preached by Jesus.

I thought the discussion centred around whether there was a difference between the Kingdom of God
and the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact I know there was an element of that to it... and that is what my
comment was directed toward. Looking back I see it is right there in the post of yours I quoted.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Ok, thanks for your opinion. Things that are different are not the same.

Yes, as we look back we can see the pictures and types. The cross was a mystery until after it happened. The Jews were not looking forward to their Messiah dying on a cross for the sins of the world.

The mystery of the cross, is this a doctrine from paul? I am sincerely trying to understand,

BLessings.

 

[John146]

I thought the discussion centred around whether there was a difference between the Kingdom of God
and the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact I know there was an element of that to it... and that is what my
comment was directed toward. Looking back I see it is right there in the post of yours I quoted.

Yes, the third heaven is still created, yes? All three heavens were created at some point. The kingdom of heaven is the first heaven in which man lives. The King will rule and reign this kingdom in Jerusalem on David's throne. David's throne is not some spiritual heavenly kingdom, but an earthly kingdom.

Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, the third heaven is still created, yes? All three heavens were created at some point. The kingdom
of heaven is the first heaven in which man lives. The King will rule and reign this kingdom in Jerusalem on
David's throne. David's throne is not some spiritual heavenly kingdom, but an earthly kingdom.

Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Is the third heaven created? That would mean God had no abode before He created it. I don't believe He needed to.

 

[John146]

The mystery of the cross, is this a doctrine from paul? I am sincerely trying to understand,

BLessings.

The gospel that Paul preached is specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. See 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. And yet, the d,b,r of Christ was hidden by God. Jesus mentioned it a couple of times to his disciples, but the truth was hid from them.

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. It was hid even among the prophets, foretold, but hid.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. The gospel Paul preached.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. Paul's gospel was hid from them.

Mark 9
30 And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. Again, the gospel Paul taught to the Gentiles.
32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him. The disciples did not understand, nor were looking forward to the cross.

Matthew 17
22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry. Why would they be exceeding sorry if they knew that by the cross their sins would be forgiven and that Jesus would resurrect the third day?

Luke 24
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not. After hearing of the empty tomb, the disciples thought it to be some made up tale.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass. Peter had no clue about the resurrection.

 

[John146]

Is the third heaven created? That would mean God had no abode before He created it. I don't believe He needed to.

Was it not at some point created by God? The dwelling place of angels and the heavenly host? The place of future dwelling by all those in Christ?

 

[Magenta]

Was it not at some point created by God? The dwelling place of angels and the heavenly host? The place of future dwelling by all those in Christ?

God's dwelling "place" surely did not need to be created.

 

[Omegatime]

Just quoting one of Apostle John's disciples. He said God had three places for the righteous, One is Heaven above, kingdom on earth and Paradise. Designed after the 30, 60, and 100 principal