"Not by works" - false!

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Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Keeping the commandments does not save.
That is the point of this thread right that we are saved by works.
After 8 pages you don't know the point of this thread? Keeping God's commandments, which Emmanuel reiterated and said, if we love Him we shall keep them, is not working to stay saved.
After all these years, you know this.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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I knew the Lord told me to come back to this forum for a very god/good reason. Bless you for feeling inspired to write this thread.


To further support the truism displayed in the subject line of this thread, not by works- false, is to read the Book of James. You can start with chapter 2. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James 2%3A14-26&version=ESV;MOUNCE

"Faith without works is dead!"

Read the whole of James.
God will tell the sincere seeker, His indwelt child, to avoid anyone who presumes to insist works have no part (no participation) in Salvation, are not of God.

Nor do those teachers respect His true word. Else, they would never seek to contradict it.

We witness those who don't believe works have a thing to do with faith when we witness the lifestyle of super rich televangelists. If they commit to any church charity it is the barest minimum.And this, after they've been on air for years! Like one pastor who asks for funds to feed hungry children in Africa. First he asked for money to afford bowls. Then he thought to show where donations were going. Sure enough, there were the red bowls millions of dollars donated had purchased. They were being dipped into watery gruel!

If we are indwelt by God, how could we ever accept any teaching that hopes to lead us to believe it, which tells us, we don't have to commit to the work of the Kingdom while we're here on earth? Love one another....but do nothing to show it? Love your enemies....but do nothing to prove it? Need a church during this "pandemic", the whole earth is church. All is of God. You are a temple carrying the Holy within. The church on earth are the whole of the faithful, faith-filled.

How can anything we do as servants of God not be in service to God. Works are a sign we are saved. Read what James, an Apostle of Emmanuel, said through inspiration of Christ, about those who do no work, and call themselves, "in Christ.".

Be blessed. And be not , not ever, led astray by false teachers.
No matter where you may find them. In the pulpit, on TV, or elsewhere in this world. .


The Book of Matthew chapter 7

Be not led astray by those who tell you God's Commands have nothing , no thing, to do with Salvation. Another false teaching. Again, watch how those who defend falsity do so. it will not be with the kindness the Gospel was given. That is because false teaching is the antithesis of the Good News from God. And therefore, cannot share the same passion and emotion, goodness, as did the Truth from God through Christ.

In our Salvation we are given a rebirth, we are no longer whom we once were. We are then able to understand Gods order of creation, and His will for us. God did not waste His breath when He gave the commandments, nor did Jesus lie when he reiterated them. Even that of Sabbath day. Though we are not to be put to death for working on Sabbath, sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday, that day of rest was created by God for us. And Emmanuel /Jesus NEVER rescinded it. He is Lord of the Sabbath, because He is our Lord that gave the Sabbath. We have our rest in Him every day, we know this. However, one day for ourselves, created for us, is our day of/with the Lord. To find respite in him, without the worldly concerns gaining our attention.
John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
1. Believe in our Lord Jesus Christ
2. Do your best to stop sinning and keep God's commandments.

That's all I'm saying.
I don't know why saying this has caused such an uproar. Maybe it's because there are many Christians who think Jesus' blood gives them a free pass to continue sinning?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
After 8 pages you don't know the point of this thread? Keeping God's commandments, which Emmanuel reiterated and said, if we love Him we shall keep them, is not working to stay saved.
After all these years, you know this.
I do not stay saved by my effort but because of the Savior who saved me who is faithful.

You should know salvation is a gift and not earned by good behavior.
Unless now you preach religion?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
1. Believe in our Lord Jesus Christ
2. Do your best to stop sinning and keep God's commandments.

That's all I'm saying.
I don't know why saying this has caused such an uproar. Maybe it's because there are many Christians who think Jesus' blood gives them a free pass to continue sinning?
It would be this line... which is incorrect.

HOWEVER, Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning, and we are warned that if we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin following the acceptance of Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins:
 
Apr 21, 2020
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It would be this line... which is incorrect.
After 11 pages of this thread I'm not going to go round in circles with you anymore to explain the basic principles that have been discussed at length already.

Let's agree to pray for eachother.

Have a great day :)
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Unrepented-of intentional sin leads to apostacy leads to hell, yes?
You just contradicted Heb 10:26 and added "unrepented" to the equation.

(Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins)
 
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
I knew the Lord told me to come back to this forum for a very god/good reason. Bless you for feeling inspired to write this thread.


To further support the truism displayed in the subject line of this thread, not by works- false, is to read the Book of James. You can start with chapter 2. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James 2%3A14-26&version=ESV;MOUNCE

"Faith without works is dead!"

Read the whole of James.
God will tell the sincere seeker, His indwelt child, to avoid anyone who presumes to insist works have no part (no participation) in Salvation, are not of God.

Nor do those teachers respect His true word. Else, they would never seek to contradict it.

We witness those who don't believe works have a thing to do with faith when we witness the lifestyle of super rich televangelists. If they commit to any church charity it is the barest minimum.And this, after they've been on air for years! Like one pastor who asks for funds to feed hungry children in Africa. First he asked for money to afford bowls. Then he thought to show where donations were going. Sure enough, there were the red bowls millions of dollars donated had purchased. They were being dipped into watery gruel!

If we are indwelt by God, how could we ever accept any teaching that hopes to lead us to believe it, which tells us, we don't have to commit to the work of the Kingdom while we're here on earth? Love one another....but do nothing to show it? Love your enemies....but do nothing to prove it? Need a church during this "pandemic", the whole earth is church. All is of God. You are a temple carrying the Holy within. The church on earth are the whole of the faithful, faith-filled.

How can anything we do as servants of God not be in service to God. Works are a sign we are saved. Read what James, an Apostle of Emmanuel, said through inspiration of Christ, about those who do no work, and call themselves, "in Christ.".

Be blessed. And be not , not ever, led astray by false teachers.
No matter where you may find them. In the pulpit, on TV, or elsewhere in this world. .


The Book of Matthew chapter 7

Be not led astray by those who tell you God's Commands have nothing , no thing, to do with Salvation. Another false teaching. Again, watch how those who defend falsity do so. it will not be with the kindness the Gospel was given. That is because false teaching is the antithesis of the Good News from God. And therefore, cannot share the same passion and emotion, goodness, as did the Truth from God through Christ.

In our Salvation we are given a rebirth, we are no longer whom we once were. We are then able to understand Gods order of creation, and His will for us. God did not waste His breath when He gave the commandments, nor did Jesus lie when he reiterated them. Even that of Sabbath day. Though we are not to be put to death for working on Sabbath, sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday, that day of rest was created by God for us. And Emmanuel /Jesus NEVER rescinded it. He is Lord of the Sabbath, because He is our Lord that gave the Sabbath. We have our rest in Him every day, we know this. However, one day for ourselves, created for us, is our day of/with the Lord. To find respite in him, without the worldly concerns gaining our attention.
John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
@preacher4truth I've just noticed that you gave my OP a 'disagree', which I find weird because we seem to agree on most things.

The post above, written by somebody else, clarifies what is meant :)
 
Jul 20, 2019
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2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves".


I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.


We ARE asked to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation:
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".


HOWEVER, Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning, and we are warned that if we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin following the acceptance of Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

This of course makes sense.
If we SAY we follow Jesus but continue rebelling against God, then are we REALLY following Jesus?
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter".


So then, we must accept Jesus into our lives and believe in him.
AND we must also stop rebelling against God, even after we have accepted Jesus into our lives.


What I have said may be obvious to many, but all the time I hear excuses from Christians to justify their sinning:
"Nobody is perfect" - nobody has said that you are
"God will forgive me" - actually, according to Matt 7:21, if you continue to sin after accepting Jesus, Jesus' sacrifice won't cover your sin (verse above)
"We're human, and humans are fallible" - typical excuse!
"It is impossible not to sin, as we are not perfect" - this article sums it up very well: https://www.gotquestions.org/go-and-sin-no-more.html
Have you heard these kind of excuses too?


Christians have no excuses for deliberately/knowingly sinning:
1 John 1:6
"If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions".
If it worked that way, no one would enter the gates of heaven. A very simple test for you, send a woman in a bikini into the church Sunday morning and see what happens within seconds. Lust, anger, envy would immediately happen, which means everyone in the building would be going to hell. I don't think Jesus died on the cross for that.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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If it worked that way, no one would enter the gates of heaven. A very simple test for you, send a woman in a bikini into the church Sunday morning and see what happens within seconds. Lust, anger, envy would immediately happen, which means everyone in the building would be going to hell. I don't think Jesus died on the cross for that.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you've not understood the purpose of this thread.
I've had to repeat myself so many times that I don't have the energy anymore - plus it's now 23:10 here in the UK!
I know there are 11 pages, but I would encourage you to understand what is actually being said in this thread before casting an assertion.
If you don't want to read the whole thread, post numbers #199 and #202 are good places to start.
 
May 22, 2020
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There is no such thing as irrelevant Scripture.
Irrelevant: not connected with or relevant to something.
Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

Example:
Statement1: I cut my toe nails today
Statement2: John 11:35 Jesus wept
My Contention: I state that John 11:35 is not relevant to 'me cutting my toe nails'.

Now, as you believe There is no such thing as irrelevant Scripture ... please point out the relevance of Statement1 and Statement2.

Context is important. Yes, all scripture is relevant to knowing more about God . Very few (if any) scripture is relevant to "me cutting my toes". Thus the verses your stated at the end of your post were NOT relevant to the subject of the post.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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Irrelevant: not connected with or relevant to something.
Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

Example:
Statement1: I cut my toe nails today
Statement2: John 11:35 Jesus wept
My Contention: I state that John 11:35 is not relevant to 'me cutting my toe nails'.

Now, as you believe There is no such thing as irrelevant Scripture ... please point out the relevance of Statement1 and Statement2.

Context is important. Yes, all scripture is relevant to knowing more about God . Very few (if any) scripture is relevant to "me cutting my toes". Thus the verses your stated at the end of your post were NOT relevant to the subject of the post.
You've created an absurd hypothetical scenario in order to demonstrate your point.

We're not talking about cutting your toe nails, we're talking about a full understanding of the word of our God.

Please try to maintain some focus.

I'd advise you to take a look at posts #199 and #202 to begin with, as you seem to misunderstand what this thread is actually about.
 
May 22, 2020
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You've created an absurd hypothetical scenario in order to demonstrate your point.

We're not talking about cutting your toe nails, we're talking about a full understanding of the word of our God.

Please try to maintain some focus.

I'd advise you to take a look at posts #199 and #202 to begin with, as you seem to misunderstand what this thread is actually about.
I was speaking to Oyster67 about our post 210. All the posts are not about you.
Please try to maintain some focus.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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I was speaking to Oyster67 about our post 210. All the posts are not about you.
Please try to maintain some focus.
You have no intention of listening to learn, just listening to respond.

This is why you're engaging in circular and non-constructive dialogue.

Please yourself if you wish to tell us about your toe nails 🙄
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
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1. Believe in our Lord Jesus Christ
2. Do your best to stop sinning and keep God's commandments.

That's all I'm saying.
I don't know why saying this has caused such an uproar. Maybe it's because there are many Christians who think Jesus' blood gives them a free pass to continue sinning?
Jesus’ blood does not give Christians a license to sin. What causes an uproar is when people seem to imply that salvation is based on our best efforts to stop sinning and commandment keeping. Then the line gets crossed into salvation by works.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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We ARE asked to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation:Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" .
This passage must be combined with Acts 3:19 to get the full picture.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

So the true Gospel is repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). But that is not salvation by works at all. It is salvation by grace through faith.