Not By Works

[BillG]

Going back to the early church creeds were created to define what a Christian must believe. Everything outside the creeds was to agree to disagree. Too many Christians don't want to agree to disagree. There is 2 groups of Christians that disagree on 5 points that they adhere to. One point is OSAS. Calvinists adhere to OSAS but Armenians oppose it.

Here is a list of the ancient creeds with date and short explanation.
. . .

YOU KNOW I every ONE of THOSE OF THE OPPOSITE VIEWPOINT has an OPINION about what OSAS actually MEANS and what We BELIEVE, and ALMOST EVERY ONE WITH AN OPINION IS TOTALLY WRONG. When are people going to learn to ASK US WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT PHRASE, instead of repeating the incredible LIES about our Beliefs.

YES I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE in OSAS, but it IS TOTALLY BIBLICAL, and NOT LIKE MOST ANTI-OSAS think we MEAN BY IT.

Then you Endoscopy bring up CREEDS that were Written when most of the world was illiterate. And think we still believe those confused opinions. Do you NOT THINK we have GROWN SPIRITUALLY at all since we NOW have our OWN BIBLES, and not a Latin version, CHAINED to the Pulpit. It is Incredible what SOME OF YOU ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVE about OSAS Beliefs.

As Far as I am concerned the Armenian and Calvinist ARGUMENTS are DEAD and has been for the past 40 years. Get Over It. I think MOST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE the TRUTH LIES SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, has NOTHING TO DO WITH lack of Obedience. It has to do with TAKING THESE VERSES LITERALLY:

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [equals born again Believer], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes [.Born Again.] has eternal life. [.It is not eternal if you can lose it.]

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


SO WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE LITERALLY, . . . . . so what do you believe?[/QUOTE]
You ignore the history of the creeds. They were written in the 200s to 500. Keep in mind the history of how things were back then. No printing presses then so Bibles were extremely rare and expensive. The word was spread by word of mouth and memorization of some documents or section of documents were used in place of the written words. This caused the creeds to be developed to spread the word of God. I have challenged some on this board to explain where any of these creeds were in error. They just say they ignore anything written by man. Their attitude ignores history of how Bibles were written. They were laboriously hand copied by scribes thus were rare and expensive. Also many of the common people were illiterate. So even if they somehow got one of the rare and extremely expensive Bibles they couldn't read it. At that time in history it was common for people to memorize important documents that were secular in nature. They did this with creeds and sections of the Bible. Using these is how the gospel was spread. Why do you and others ignore this part of history of how life was lived before printing presses and almost universal education of children in developed countries. Go look at how sections of the world are today in the very undeveloped areas. Poor illiterate scratching out a living with no schools, hospitals, and other things we take for granted living in North America. Even Mexico is head and shoulders above the way of life in these areas. Life was like that in the time of these creeds were written.

WHY DO YOU AND OTHERS IGNORE THE REALITY OF LIFE BACK THEN!![/QUOTE]
Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?

 

[VCO]

Again, this appearsto be saying he is not saved based on his belief of when the rapture will occure.

All who are saved will be at the wedding, so I am not sure what your trying to say

Many of those that were not looking for HIM to come Pre-Tribulation, very well could be a major portion of the Martyred TRIBULATION SAINTS. Do you not know that there will be Martyred Saints After the Calling Out of the Bride ? ? ?

I promised I would get back on SUBJECT:

Many People want to believe WE can lose our SALVATION, BUT NOT I.


Proverbs 8:36 (NKJV)
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."

1 John 3:14 (NIV)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


ARE NOT THOSE VERSES SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING, that they were NOT SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE:

.

 

[Endoscopy]

So the Not by works thread has now become

End time eschatology debate.

Made a note to myself.

"Bill when you tell people about Jesus, how much he loves them, how he can heal, how he accepts then where they are at, they are significant, secure and accepted by faith BUT if you don't understand end time eschatology there is a problem"

Yes I may be over dramatic but the drunk guy who stumbled into church, the people who are not intelligent, and the list could go on"

They just want to know that they are loved and accepted for who they are.
I'm not saying it's wrong to discuss such things, but if it's heavy, intellectual please start another thread and don't detract from this one.

I agree about eschatology. There are a couple of sites that have 4 Biblical concepts of eschatology all in conflict with each other. Read them and became pan trib. LOL

 

[Endoscopy]

Many of those that were not looking for HIM to come Pre-Tribulation, very well could be a major portion of the Martyred TRIBULATION SAINTS. Do you not know that there will be Martyred Saints After the Calling Out of the Bride ? ? ?

I promised I would get back on SUBJECT:

Many People want to believe WE can lose our SALVATION, BUT NOT I.


Proverbs 8:36 (NKJV)
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."

1 John 3:14 (NIV)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


ARE NOT THOSE VERSES SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING, that they were NOT SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE:

.

Here is the scripture backing up OSAS. 3 translations. KJV, NIV and AMPC.

John 10 KJV
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10 NIV
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

 

[dcontroversal]

So the Not by works thread has now become

End time eschatology debate.

Made a note to myself.

"Bill when you tell people about Jesus, how much he loves them, how he can heal, how he accepts then where they are at, they are significant, secure and accepted by faith BUT if you don't understand end time eschatology there is a problem"

Yes I may be over dramatic but the drunk guy who stumbled into church, the people who are not intelligent, and the list could go on"

They just want to know that they are loved and accepted for who they are.
I'm not saying it's wrong to discuss such things, but if it's heavy, intellectual please start another thread and don't detract from this one.

Naaa...just a Rabbit chase is all....fall coming and all...Rabbit season starts in October haha

 

[dcontroversal]

I hear so many people that hate the KJB justify their animosity toward it by telling us that it is archaic. Well, guess what - the archaic words are found in the modern versions as well.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/vanceniv.html

I don't hate it and I use a Cambridge Black Letter wide margin Berkshire leather edition that cost me 185 in 1995.....but make no mistake....it is a translation, transliteration and even their own preface states clearly it was COMPARED to the English versions that came before it and a cursory read will reveal copied verbatim sections of the O.T.....

Worship the God of the version, not the version......and too be truthful and frank....there are more gramatically correct versions.....

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

With 71,945 posts I'm pretty sure there is discussion on how many angels can fit on the head of a needle somewhere.

 

[Endoscopy]

YOU KNOW I every ONE of THOSE OF THE OPPOSITE VIEWPOINT has an OPINION about what OSAS actually MEANS and what We BELIEVE, and ALMOST EVERY ONE WITH AN OPINION IS TOTALLY WRONG. When are people going to learn to ASK US WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT PHRASE, instead of repeating the incredible LIES about our Beliefs.

YES I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE in OSAS, but it IS TOTALLY BIBLICAL, and NOT LIKE MOST ANTI-OSAS think we MEAN BY IT.

Then you Endoscopy bring up CREEDS that were Written when most of the world was illiterate. And think we still believe those confused opinions. Do you NOT THINK we have GROWN SPIRITUALLY at all since we NOW have our OWN BIBLES, and not a Latin version, CHAINED to the Pulpit. It is Incredible what SOME OF YOU ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVE about OSAS Beliefs.

As Far as I am concerned the Armenian and Calvinist ARGUMENTS are DEAD and has been for the past 40 years. Get Over It. I think MOST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE the TRUTH LIES SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, has NOTHING TO DO WITH lack of Obedience. It has to do with TAKING THESE VERSES LITERALLY:

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [equals born again Believer], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes [.Born Again.] has eternal life. [.It is not eternal if you can lose it.]

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


SO WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE LITERALLY, . . . . . so what do you believe?

You ignore the history of the creeds. They were written in the 200s to 500. Keep in mind the history of how things were back then. No printing presses then so Bibles were extremely rare and expensive. The word was spread by word of mouth and memorization of some documents or section of documents were used in place of the written words. This caused the creeds to be developed to spread the word of God. I have challenged some on this board to explain where any of these creeds were in error. They just say they ignore anything written by man. Their attitude ignores history of how Bibles were written. They were laboriously hand copied by scribes thus were rare and expensive. Also many of the common people were illiterate. So even if they somehow got one of the rare and extremely expensive Bibles they couldn't read it. At that time in history it was common for people to memorize important documents that were secular in nature. They did this with creeds and sections of the Bible. Using these is how the gospel was spread. Why do you and others ignore this part of history of how life was lived before printing presses and almost universal education of children in developed countries. Go look at how sections of the world are today in the very undeveloped areas. Poor illiterate scratching out a living with no schools, hospitals, and other things we take for granted living in North America. Even Mexico is head and shoulders above the way of life in these areas. Life was like that in the time of these creeds were written.

WHY DO YOU AND OTHERS IGNORE THE REALITY OF LIFE BACK THEN!![/QUOTE]
Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?[/QUOTE]

Here is the scripture backing up OSAS. 3 translations. KJV, NIV and AMPC.

John 10 KJV
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10 NIV
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.

 

[Endoscopy]

I don't hate it and I use a Cambridge Black Letter wide margin Berkshire leather edition that cost me 185 in 1995.....but make no mistake....it is a translation, transliteration and even their own preface states clearly it was COMPARED to the English versions that came before it and a cursory read will reveal copied verbatim sections of the O.T.....

Worship the God of the version, not the version......and too be truthful and frank....there are more gramatically correct versions.....

That is why my Bible is my smartphone. I have biblegateway.com on a web page in my browser. When the minister states the scripture I bring it up and read it there. I go between versions. Usually KJV, NIV, ESV and AMPC. My preference is for NIV and AMPC. Only go to ESV once in a while. Tried German but couldn't understand a word of it.

 

[VCO]

Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?

What are you talking about ? ? ?

These quotes on Posts are getting purely jumbled. I have found other quotes attributed to me, and the other way around.

 

[Hevosmies]

Sorry DC, I will answer this question and then get back on subject:

I am glad you explained Pan-Trib, I actually stopped reading after I read Pan-Trib, wondering what was that? Then I got a huge chuckle when I Read: whatever "pans out". LOL Actually almost all of the Verses that I have been using in the Past several Posts, are Pre-Trib Verses, but more than that, I wrote a detailed explanation in my thread:
THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3595

The Last Day, has several difference meaning. I think it refers to the LAST DAY OF THE CHURCH AGE. It can also refer to the 70th Week of Daniel, To the LORD the DAY is as a 1000 years, also Judgement Day, etc.



1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (HCSB)
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ.


I think that will CLEARLY be in the ORDER that we died. ADAM FIRST, then all of us that have DIED, could be several days, THEN:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (HCSB)
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.



You ask about the Trumpet, and it is NOT RELATED TO THE TRUMPET JUDGEMENT.

The Last Trumpet has been a mixture of misinformation. There is in JUDAISM a Trumpet Note that Is called the LAST TRUMP. It is during the Feast of Trumpets or Rosh HaShanah, there are a 100 blasts on a Shofar Trumpet. The FINAL LAST of the 100 is Called the Last Trump. It is a very LONG sustained Note, unlike the other 99 notes, here are Trumpet Blasts:

@@@@@@@@@@@@

(4) The Trumpet Blasts:

The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment.

The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping.

The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing.

The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note.

– In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@


When it says the TRUMPET OF GOD, I cannot point to a Scripture that it will be all of the 100 Notes, BUT I THINK IT WILL BE SO, and 100th Blast is the Tekiah Gedolah blast, AND I think THAT is the TRUMP that the DEAD WILL RISE ON THAT LAST TRUMP. Therefore I believe it is a reference to that Tekiah Gedolah blast, and not the Seventh TRUMPET Judgement of Revelation, Rev. 10:7-11.

Here is SHOFAR TRUMPETER demonstrating this Feast of Trumpets so we can hear what it sounds like.

Thanks for your answer VCO. I hope you drop by my "Who are the 24 Elders?" Thread and give your input.


I believe that those trumpets from judaism have something to do with it definately. It would match as the fulfillment of the feast of Trumpets, (the rapture).

Do you believe that only obedient christians go in the rapture? And the backslid ones are left here?

 

[dcontroversal]

With 71,945 posts I'm pretty sure there is discussion on how many angels can fit on the head of a needle somewhere.

If Atlas can hold the world up I am sure that "one more angel" can fit on the head of a needle....!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Thanks for your answer VCO. I hope you drop by my "Who are the 24 Elders?" Thread and give your input.


I believe that those trumpets from judaism have something to do with it definately. It would match as the fulfillment of the feast of Trumpets, (the rapture).

Do you believe that only obedient christians go in the rapture? And the backslid ones are left here?

I believe only those Christians that are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit will go in the rapture . . . oh wait! They all are!

The Holy Spirit departs and we all go with Him. Of course, He is God - but His ministry reverts to what it was prior to the day of Pentecost when He came down to imbue believers.

 

[benhur]

Exactly......wise men see evil coming and prepare for it....!!

This is all that we need. Wise men see evil coming and prepare for it. Good advice decon.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is all that we need. Wise men see evil coming and prepare for it. Good advice decon.

Yep....biblical....NOAH prepared for the destruction of the world.....think about that for a moment......

 

[Shamah]

Psalm 62:1-12, "62:1, "My being finds rest in the Mighty One alone; From Him is my deliverance."62:2, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not greatly shaken."62:3, "How long would you shout at a man? – Murder! – Like a leaning wall, a tottering fence."62:4, "They plotted to topple him from his high position; They delight in lies; They bless with their mouth, But in their heart they curse. Selah."62:5, "My being, find rest in the Mighty One alone, Because my expectation is from Him."62:6, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not shaken."62:7, "My deliverance and my esteem depend on the Mighty One; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in the Mighty One."62:8, "Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; the Mighty One is a refuge for us. Selah."62:9, "Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath."62:10, "Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them."62:11, "the Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to the Mighty One."62:12, "And loving-commitment is Yours, O יהוה; For You reward each one according to his work."

 

[dcontroversal]

Psalm 62:1-12, "62:1, "My being finds rest in the Mighty One alone; From Him is my deliverance."62:2, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not greatly shaken."62:3, "How long would you shout at a man? – Murder! – Like a leaning wall, a tottering fence."62:4, "They plotted to topple him from his high position; They delight in lies; They bless with their mouth, But in their heart they curse. Selah."62:5, "My being, find rest in the Mighty One alone, Because my expectation is from Him."62:6, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not shaken."62:7, "My deliverance and my esteem depend on the Mighty One; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in the Mighty One."62:8, "Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; the Mighty One is a refuge for us. Selah."62:9, "Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath."62:10, "Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them."62:11, "the Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to the Mighty One."62:12, "And loving-commitment is Yours, O יהוה; For You reward each one according to his work."

Yep, and salvation is not a reward it is a gift that is irrevocable........!

 

[VCO]

[

I believe only those Christians that are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit will go in the rapture . . . oh wait! They all are!

The Holy Spirit departs and we all go with Him. Of course, He is God - but His ministry reverts to what it was prior to the day of Pentecost when He came down to imbue believers.

NOT ALL:

Matthew 7:20-24 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.

 

[benhur]

Dude, you need to study more. Paul says we all know od thats why we are without excuse. He is not talking about people who were saved and then did whatever you think they did to lose salvation.

His point is no one will have an excuse on judgment day, Not that eternal security is a lie.

He is talking to those that have the truth in unrighteousness.

What do you think of a person who has the truth. Do you think that they knew God at least at one time? Do you think they were saved at one time? Do you think they had the truth and all that goes with knowing the truth and gave it up? Yes. OSAS is not a sound doctrine.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

[


NOT ALL:

Matthew 7:20-24 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.

Those that are saved have already done the will of the Father (doesn't mean that there are not other things they will do to obey His will, but this is the main one) . . .

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:39-40).

Like Saul did, I'm afraid that you are kicking against the pricks.