Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Hi gb9,

You are claiming various things without stating what you actually mean.
I cannot say you are right or wrong without these statements.

I hope you understand content is the only way anyone can validate what you are claiming.
And it is possible you are mistaken. Based on what you are declaring you believe, it appears
you are mistaken.

Now if it truth you are just someone who dismisses things, then unfortunately it does not help
anyone grow in understanding or grace, rather it is just unhelpful. God bless you.

On a positive front, why type of church do you attend and theological position you hold to,
reformed, calvanistic, armenian, NAR, new age, baptist, methodist? This helps understanding
where you are coming from, when differences can become obscured by discussions on areas
one agrees, where others highlight a very different theology.

I once read a long statement of faith, and only at the end, when they started praising one
prophet and the end time message, one knew it was way out there, but superficially seemed
very orthodox.

On this front, dcon said he opposed the majority of churches and their theology, so clearly
he admitted to a small minority perspective.
if you cannot figure out what " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved", then I see no need of saying anything else to you.

I have explained this to you for 2+ years, when you have not been banned, so if you have not got it by now, then someone else can try to explain it to you.........
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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if you cannot figure out what " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved", then I see no need of saying anything else to you.

I have explained this to you for 2+ years, when you have not been banned, so if you have not got it by now, then someone else can try to explain it to you.........
You know again you have not explained your point.
I have to repeat to you, we both believe on the Lord Jesus and believe we are saved, but it is
you who claim others have it wrong. It sounds like you do not have an answer to this so I assume the
words do not mean that much to you, as they are like a bland badge one wears, and someone else knows
why. Following Jesus is just not this bland and meaningless, unless one follows easy believism, where
it does not matter where you go, what you do, and what you believe unless at some point you got the
right combination. But this often sounds like a luck dip where everyone is a winner.........:)
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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If God feel the pain of those in hell with high intensity, constantly

How is God able to handle all that pain?

How can God stand it?
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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Dear apologist

Please have lots of tissues, drinking water, a pillow to bang your head on, and a punching bag right besides you

Aside from the humor

I have learned a few things from that "CARM simulation"

Apologetics is not practice to prove that you are good analytical fighter, but because of love for the welfare of their soul

Atheist are stuck in a spiritual sleep paralysis, and their coma like state is hard to wake up from.

Their bias, mockery, their pride, and their belittling ways

The one who blinded the atheist is a true sadist

It's like trying to help a dimentia victim, who stubbornly refuse the right treatment (and even slap you in the face sometimes:cry:), but you love them and you care for them
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
Dear apologist

Please have lots of tissues, drinking water, a pillow to bang your head on, and a punching bag right besides you

Aside from the humor

I have learned a few things from that "CARM simulation"

Apologetics is not practice to prove that you are good analytical fighter, but because of love for the welfare of their soul

Atheist are stuck in a spiritual sleep paralysis, and their coma like state is hard to wake up from.

Their bias, mockery, their pride, and their belittling ways

The one who blinded the atheist is a true sadist

It's like trying to help a dimentia victim, who stubbornly refuse the right treatment (and even slap you in the face sometimes:cry:), but you love them and you care for them
I use illustrations to help explain
 
Dec 12, 2013
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They believe they can live a sinless life , but just reading proverbs this morning and come across this
Proverbs 20:9 Who can say " I have cleansed my heart,
I am pure from my sin " ?
xox
The bible is clear.....the following was written with saved people on the planet...

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
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In all honesty, I believe it's quite a daunting task to try to defend the whole new testament let alone the whole Bible just to prove that I'm a nice guy and even if I defend it I'll feel that all the effort will ultimately go down the drain
 
Dec 27, 2018
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It all boils down to how one defines the term, "entire sanctification." If one defines it as sinless perfection, then I disagree with that tenet. I was commenting on gb9's comment against being granted salvation only after one gets their walk correct, which implies reaching a stage in progressive sanctification in regards to growth in character and maturity (even entire sanctification) before one is saved. That is what I'm guarding against, in which the end result of that would be salvation by works.

I've heard those who teach sinless perfection say that if we do not reach sinless perfection in our lifetime (and basically define that as entire sanctification) then we won't be saved. That would be performance based works salvation. Becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event (1 Corinthians 6:11) yet we also have progressive sanctification (which is an ongoing process) in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts and motives.
As you know, we agree on many things, perhaps most things, and I know we agree on the fact that sinless perfection and works based salvation is unbiblical. I was not trying to contradict you, but just bringing up that the older forms of holiness teachings, (like that taught by John Wesley) would be more in line with the way I defined the belief, and of course, there are some that carry it to extremes, just as can be the case with any teaching.

I do not hold to entire sanctification except in the sense that God will complete the work He begins in us, which is basically completed at the Parousia, second advent. But I do like Wesley and other's emphasis on heart purity. I also believe that heart purity teaches that if we lop off branches from the sin tree in us without addressing the root, our hearts, every time we lop off one branch, three more will grow in it's place, but if we let God purify our hearts in faith, He deals with it at it's root, radical cleansing. I think this is what men like Wesley were getting at, albeit, it may have been taken too far with some.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
The bible is clear.....the following was written with saved people on the planet...
There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.
There are two interesting different interpretations of this position.
1. All are caught in sin no matter their belief, ie sin is never cleansed from the heart
2. All men have sinned in their lives, some are cleansed and forgiven while others are not.

This is by nature the divide between those who hold we are static, and there is only faith in a
promise that delivers us, and those who believe we can walk in Jesus's way, refined and growing
closer to Him, by every step as we follow, into the Kingdom of heaven.

And here is the problem. I sit in a room only thinking. Am I pure, Holy, cleansed and true or a sinner
lost and doomed to judgement and the fire?

If I can be either or just one, that determines ones theology. And what is my perception of where I am?
My perception will determine my faith, my energy, my enthusiasm, what I sow to and what I reap from.
If I believe I have nothing, no treasure, no benefit or result from my behaviour, I will behave as my heart
dictates, whether good or evil. If I believe in consequences, or earning something, a balance of good and
evil, I will respond in one way, or if I need to be open honest, work through things, be inspired by love and
service I will respond in another.

What I am and how I feel about it matters.
My past matters, and the pain I have from the failure of doing things in the wrong way.
I may hate some things so much, I go too far in the opposite direction to compensate, and end up worse
than I was before.

So how we sit in that room, and what we know God feels about us moulds our life.
It moulds the words we use to others, our respect and politeness, our love and reaching out, our ability
to change and adjust, to become, to get alongside.

I have come to see, until we see ourselves as forgiven, redeemed, loved, cleansed, blameless, pure individuals
who the Lord in dwells through the Holy Spirit, to give and share love for others, it will be hard for us to follow
Jesus.

Sin entangles, destroys, makes complicated, lies, deceives, destroys, confuses, hides, obscures. It is sin that says
things are too far gone to resolve, too complicated to sort our, unredeemable to purify and cleanse, which is why
it claims its hold and stays in domination. But it is the cross and Jesus who declares this a lie, and proclaims
through the resurrection that there is victory over the biggest fear we have, death. Nothing is impossible for God.

To have faith and to believe Jesus is to believe in this victory, in this hope brought by the Holy Spirit to our hearts
that this path is true and real, Amen.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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AMEN !

NOW you have the right Idea.

Will pray for you.
Meaning

Ask and ye shall receive

And "come and dine with me" for the relationship

Or open more doors of our lives for Him

How far can one spiritually grow with just revelation 3:20 alone?

Or, if I misunderstood, please clarify
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
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Atheist can be as foolish as walking in here with John 1:18

"No one has seen God"

We'd be like "so?"

Walk by faith, not by sight

Romans 1:20 - invisible qualities

John 4:23 - God is Spirit

Etc.

Like it's nothing
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
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I think one time, after I took a good nap and feel refreshed, before I indulge in how good that feels, I somehow decided to read the Bible which sounds like "relaxing documentary", and then decided to take a relaxed reading of the Word, and in a relaxed position, it speaks to me, and it is not even my doing, eventually, I somehow sense a faint subtle essence of I'm guessing 20-30 foot tall Jesus hoovering over me, repeatedly saying "my child, my child, my child" repeatedly

Like he was holding me by the chair that I sit on

I have worries that I might become numb to even that

May perfect love cast out fear and pray for me
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
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Apologetics have capabilities (Romans 1:20) and limitations (John 6:44)

Sometimes I forget that it's a bad idea to quote Scripture to non-believers

For reasons that @Magenta can explain to me
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,732
3,559
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Romans 8:27-28 (NKJV)
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Please clarify

For "His purpose"

Do you mean the purpose of God's existence, or is that a misunderstanding?
Hello anointedwinner,

It is so good that you are asking questions because evidence of our seeking God is when we ask questions - you're digging - you're searching! Great job!

So, "His purpose" in Romans 8:28 means for God's plan and reasons - God has a reason and a plan for everything and everyone He makes. He calls us out from the world according to His plan, purpose - He is doing something wonderful with all of us.

Embrace His love for you, and choose to love Him, too. In the beginning, I had to ask Him to help me to love Him. I just didn't know Him very well so, it was hard to love Him consistently in the good times and the bad times. It's easy to love God when everything is going good but, when bad things happen - that's when I find out how much I love Him.

I've learned in the bad times, if I stay with Him He proves Himself to be faithful. He desires that I am also faithful to Him. Just stay with Him, no matter what happens in your life.........all things will work together for good - eventually, He turns all the bad into good.

If a person was a drug addict, God delivers them and then when they get set free they can help lead others to Christ for their freedom, too. :love:(y)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
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Meaning

Ask and ye shall receive

And "come and dine with me" for the relationship

Or open more doors of our lives for Him

How far can one spiritually grow with just revelation 3:20 alone?

Or, if I misunderstood, please clarify

That would depend on HOW MUCH YOU TRUST HIM!