Not By Works
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Agreed! And that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is what Eternally Grateful already said before, in the post below. DO YOU REMEMBER LIKING THIS POST, GB9?
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature. [/QUOTE]
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature. [/QUOTE]
"eternally-gratefull, post: 3941403, member: 82611"]As I believe Scripture states,
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.
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Read the part in red. Guess who liked this post. DC and GB9 among others.
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.
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Read the part in red. Guess who liked this post. DC and GB9 among others.
Agreed! And that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is what Eternally Grateful already said before, in the post below. DO YOU REMEMBER LIKING THIS POST, GB9?
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature. [/QUOTE]
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature. [/QUOTE]
mailmandan, post: 3938739, member: 193497"]Amen! Good works put in their proper place -- subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not works, but FOR good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). This does not remove good works from the Christian life. It just puts them in their proper place -- subsequent to the new birth and obtaining salvation through faith in Christ.
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Guess who liked THIS wonderful post. DC and GB9 AGAIN (among others) Works subsequent to the new birth and salvation means the same as works following or after salvation. Mailmandan said the same thing I said, and received accolades from DC and GB9, I say the same thing and I am called a liar and a fraud.
Does that seem strange to you, or did their position change in a matter of weeks. I guess maybe it did.
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Guess who liked THIS wonderful post. DC and GB9 AGAIN (among others) Works subsequent to the new birth and salvation means the same as works following or after salvation. Mailmandan said the same thing I said, and received accolades from DC and GB9, I say the same thing and I am called a liar and a fraud.
Does that seem strange to you, or did their position change in a matter of weeks. I guess maybe it did.
mailmandan, post: 3938739, member: 193497"]Amen! Good works put in their proper place -- subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not works, but FOR good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). This does not remove good works from the Christian life. It just puts them in their proper place -- subsequent to the new birth and obtaining salvation through faith in Christ.
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GB9, do you remember liking this post? DO you see that it is saying almost the exact same thing I have been saying? IN case you didn't know it, good works subsequent to salvation is the same thing as saying good works follow salvation.
How is it that you like a post where Mailmandan says something, and then accusing me of a lie when I say the exact same thing.
Same thing with eternally grateful's post earlier
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GB9, do you remember liking this post? DO you see that it is saying almost the exact same thing I have been saying? IN case you didn't know it, good works subsequent to salvation is the same thing as saying good works follow salvation.
How is it that you like a post where Mailmandan says something, and then accusing me of a lie when I say the exact same thing.
Same thing with eternally grateful's post earlier
"eternally-gratefull, post: 3941403, member: 82611"]As I believe Scripture states,
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.
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Guess who liked this post? DC and GB9 among others. But it's basically saying the same thing I have been saying. So they like it when MMD says it, and they call me a liar and a fraud when I say it. That is a little strange, if you ask me.
Not a temper tantrum, just demonstrating inconsistencies in their argumentation.
Eph 2 10, We were created (anew) for good wrks.
In our new nature, Works are the norm and we are fed off of those works. Sin is like poison, and it damages us, Not like when we were of the world when the opposite was truth, Its why a child of God can not continue to live as he always did, because he could not handle it. Sin does not bring the same joy or confort. It brings pain and suffering (then add to that chastening from God)
Its why I laugh at those who say we MUST work to be saved, its impossible for a true believer not to work. There is no must about it. It is their new nature.
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Guess who liked this post? DC and GB9 among others. But it's basically saying the same thing I have been saying. So they like it when MMD says it, and they call me a liar and a fraud when I say it. That is a little strange, if you ask me.
Not a temper tantrum, just demonstrating inconsistencies in their argumentation.
IN Macabeus's POST: When you say WORKS FOLLOW SALVATION; but don't you mean that SALVATION COMES FIRST, without any works.
In answer to your question, the answer is a resounding yes. DC knows this is my position. I have stated it dozens of times. If Mailmandan says the same thing I say, (and ask him, he does),that works follow/come after salvation, no one disagrees with him, and he will get thumbs up all around. But if I say it, I get dogpiled.
Much of the disagreement is personal, and I will show that later. If I cannot, I will apologize for wrongly suggesting such a thing.
I agree with your summation that works flow out of God given love. If you go back over my posts that I posted today, you will see that I said this numerous times this afternoon, but people disagree out of personal dislike for me. That is OK, I've probably earned it. But it is foolish to disagree with someone just because you don't like them.
In answer to your question, the answer is a resounding yes. DC knows this is my position. I have stated it dozens of times. If Mailmandan says the same thing I say, (and ask him, he does),that works follow/come after salvation, no one disagrees with him, and he will get thumbs up all around. But if I say it, I get dogpiled.
Much of the disagreement is personal, and I will show that later. If I cannot, I will apologize for wrongly suggesting such a thing.
I agree with your summation that works flow out of God given love. If you go back over my posts that I posted today, you will see that I said this numerous times this afternoon, but people disagree out of personal dislike for me. That is OK, I've probably earned it. But it is foolish to disagree with someone just because you don't like them.
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Macabeus, You will find that MOST OF US HERE on this tread ARE CUT FROM THE SAME BOLT OF CLOTH, CONCERNING THE MAINLINE THEOLOGY WE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT. WE ALL AGREE THAT OBEDIENCE SPAWNS FROM THE LOVE THAT GOD HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS.
You have falsely accused Mailmandan, because of yet another misunderstanding.
You have falsely accused Mailmandan, because of yet another misunderstanding.
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@Macabeus what is at the center of this diagreement is two opposing doctrines.
One that John MacArthur teaches of one nature being transformed into the image of Christ.
And the other of the dual nature.
For those who follow the "one nature" doctrine evidence of works and obedience are essential because the believer only has one nature, many follow this teaching on this thread who still believe works are not part of salvation. In this doctrine people will state we are obligated to put works in there somewhere
In this area, I do believe scripture makes it abundantly clear that there are two natures in the born again believer, works will vary depending on the person and how willingly they walk in the Spirit....you do realize this does not mean they are ardent sinners it means they do not put themselves under grace, they are being good in the power of their own flesh.
I think that this is where the dispute can be resolved.
Here I can do it..... Scripture teaches we have two natures read Romans.
Okay all done
One that John MacArthur teaches of one nature being transformed into the image of Christ.
And the other of the dual nature.
For those who follow the "one nature" doctrine evidence of works and obedience are essential because the believer only has one nature, many follow this teaching on this thread who still believe works are not part of salvation. In this doctrine people will state we are obligated to put works in there somewhere
In this area, I do believe scripture makes it abundantly clear that there are two natures in the born again believer, works will vary depending on the person and how willingly they walk in the Spirit....you do realize this does not mean they are ardent sinners it means they do not put themselves under grace, they are being good in the power of their own flesh.
I think that this is where the dispute can be resolved.
Here I can do it..... Scripture teaches we have two natures read Romans.
Okay all done
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this may surprise you, but I really do not care that much about what some faceless person on the internet , who I will most likely never meet, has to say about me, and no, I do not remember exactly what posts I like. ( I do not dislike or x posts, I personally think that is silly, we ain't passing notes like back in pre-internet middle school .).
now, I do agree with vco, there seems to be massive mis-understanding about what you say. it is made far worse by your way overblown tirades about decon, at times, me and others .
so, I am going to do you like I did f.h.s ( peterjens ) and not just interact with you anymore. you do seem to sincerely seem to believe that we are saved by grace apart from works, but at times you seem to wobble on this, lean toward works salvation. this is going to always lead to these massive mis-understandings, especially since you go on these long vendetta tirades.
now, I do agree with vco, there seems to be massive mis-understanding about what you say. it is made far worse by your way overblown tirades about decon, at times, me and others .
so, I am going to do you like I did f.h.s ( peterjens ) and not just interact with you anymore. you do seem to sincerely seem to believe that we are saved by grace apart from works, but at times you seem to wobble on this, lean toward works salvation. this is going to always lead to these massive mis-understandings, especially since you go on these long vendetta tirades.
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@Macabeus what is at the center of this diagreement is two opposing doctrines.
One that John MacArthur teaches of one nature being transformed into the image of Christ.
And the other of the dual nature.
For those who follow the "one nature" doctrine evidence of works and obedience are essential because the believer only has one nature, many follow this teaching on this thread who still believe works are not part of salvation. In this doctrine people will state we are obligated to put works in there somewhere
In this area, I do believe scripture makes it abundantly clear that there are two natures in the born again believer, works will vary depending on the person and how willingly they walk in the Spirit....you do realize this does not mean they are ardent sinners it means they do not put themselves under grace, they are being good in the power of their own flesh.
I think that this is where the dispute can be resolved.
Here I can do it..... Scripture teaches we have two natures read Romans.
Okay all done
One that John MacArthur teaches of one nature being transformed into the image of Christ.
And the other of the dual nature.
For those who follow the "one nature" doctrine evidence of works and obedience are essential because the believer only has one nature, many follow this teaching on this thread who still believe works are not part of salvation. In this doctrine people will state we are obligated to put works in there somewhere
In this area, I do believe scripture makes it abundantly clear that there are two natures in the born again believer, works will vary depending on the person and how willingly they walk in the Spirit....you do realize this does not mean they are ardent sinners it means they do not put themselves under grace, they are being good in the power of their own flesh.
I think that this is where the dispute can be resolved.
Here I can do it..... Scripture teaches we have two natures read Romans.
Okay all done
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There are so many variations, I guess the part I hate is looking to oneself for assurance of salvation, i.e. by our thoughts, desires, motives and being good.
I think best to trust God and His promises.
I think best to trust God and His promises.
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