Not By Works

[Chris1975]

2 Thessalonians 2
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Luke 17
36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

 

[Judges1318]

Heres another profound insight @Judges1318. Think about how relevant this piece is in relation to the debating here on these forums....

Deuteronomy 29
18 so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I [c]follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober.
20 “The Lord would not spare him; for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven.

But, but.......salvation is not by works, and I can't lose my salvation, and God's gifts are irrevocable, and I can only be cut off from fellowship, and........

 

[Chris1975]

2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

 

[Judges1318]

Hebrews was written a few millenniums after Deuteronomy was written.
There would be no reason for Hebrews 13:5 to state "“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

The Scriptures can't be broken... (John 10:35)

Okay, but how does this mean we can leave the part about him forsaking us if we forsake him out of the scriptures now?

 

[Judges1318]

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Key words: "and believes in Him".
The promise is for those who presently believe in Him.
The promise is not for those who used to believe in Him, or never did at all.
It is not for the person who turns away from and forsakes the Lord but who thinks the promise still applies to them because they can't lose their salvation.

 

[PS]

Yep....the many that peddle what you peddle pal....and I stand against the Jeezus you peddle all day long because he is not the Jesus of the bible....!

I'm not seeing the Christian attributes of love, peace and gentleness etc in your posts I'm sorry to say, and to defile the name of my Lord and Saviour, well to me it is like sacrilege.

 

[mailmandan]

Yep. It's the doctrine of the end times through which the great falling away is being precipitated.

The Mystery of Lawlessness

 

[Discern]

Commandments of God such as Deuteronomy 6:4 does not conform to doctrines and creeds such as the trinitarian creed or doctrine
that claims that God is a number in a number type substance or person such as one in three persons/ substances or three in one persons / substances.

Tell the Council of Nicea or whoever that, that doctrine did not come from MT Sinai on any tablets

Please compare these verses...

Isaiah 44:24- Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

John 1:3- All things were made by him; (LOGOS) and without him (LOGOS) was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14- And the Word (LOGOS) was made flesh (Jesus), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

YHWH created all things by Himself. Yet He created all things by or through the LOGOS. The LOGOS was made flesh in the person of Jesus.

The Holy Spirit was also involved in Creation.

If YHWH created all things by Himself, and only the Father is YHWH, how can it be said that the LOGOS and the Spirit had a part in creation. Unless the LOGOS and the Spirit are YHWH.

 

[Discern]

Jesus applied titles of Deity to Himself. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, etc.


Revelation 1:17-18- And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus is the First and the Last.


Isaiah 44:6- Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

BTW, besides YHWH there is no God. Yet Jesus is called God in John 1:1

 

[Discern]

So then
you believe that the Son of God is a created being?

You know we are not talking about the Trinity so stop confusing the issue.

Is the Father God?

Is the Son (LOGOS) God?

Is the Holy Spirit God?

 

[Discern]

Jesus applied titles of Deity to Himself. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, etc.


Revelation 1:17-18- And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus is the First and the Last.


Isaiah 44:6- Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

BTW, besides YHWH there is no God. Yet Jesus is called God in John 1:1

YHWH created all things by Himself. (Isaiah 44:24)

All things were created by or through the LOGOS. (John 1:3)

If Jesus is not God incarnate, these two verse contradict each other.

These words were spoken to the Son...Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Hebrews 1:10

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus applied titles of Deity to Himself. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, etc.

Revelation 1:17-18- And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus is the First and the Last.

Isaiah 44:6- Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

BTW, besides YHWH there is no God. Yet Jesus is called God in John 1:1

Amen! In John 8:58, Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." In response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". (John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58; 13:19).

The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus "..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And he is before all things, and by Him all things consist." (Colossians 1:15-17)

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”. This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead)dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

In John 20:27, Jesus said to Thomas - "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

JESUS IS GOD.

 

[Discern]

So then
you believe that the Son of God is a created being?

You know we are not talking about the Trinity so stop confusing the issue.

Jesus as God sits on the right hand of God. Distinct persons in ONE God.

 

[Melach]

...unless you forsake Him.

The author is quoting from Deuteronomy 31...

"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:8 (vs.6 too)

Now look at the condition for Him not forsaking you found right in the same passage:

"They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them. 17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:

You did not know this, did you?

can someone answer this please?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YHWH created all things by Himself. (Isaiah 44:24)

All things were created by or through the LOGOS. (John 1:3)

If Jesus is not God incarnate, these two verse contradict each other.

These words were spoken to the Son...Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Hebrews 1:10

If Jesus is it God we are hopeless. Who but God himself has the capacity to take our burden

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Amen! In John 8:58, Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." In response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". (John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58; 13:19).

The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus "..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And he is before all things, and by Him all things consist." (Colossians 1:15-17)

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”. This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead)dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

In John 20:27, Jesus said to Thomas - "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

JESUS IS GOD.

The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly lives loooking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed and to purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14 or so

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can someone answer this please?

That was talking about a nation of people, not a person.

also. Read Lev 26, even when he punishes them because they forsake him, what did God say? He will still remember his covenant with them, in fact, we are told there will always be a remnant. So in reality, even God never truly forsook them.
like he never forsakes us

sadly these workers have no comprehension of how contextual hermeneutics is used in interpretation

 

[Melach]

That was talking about a nation of people, not a person.

also. Read Lev 26, even when he punishes them because they forsake him, what did God say? He will still remember his covenant with them, in fact, we are told there will always be a remnant. So in reality, even God never truly forsook them.
like he never forsakes us

sadly these workers have no comprehension of how contextual hermeneutics is used in interpretation

thanks bro. what does hermeneutics mean? i googled it and im no wiser can you explain it to me simple.

"

1. the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts." we all interpret it some way

on wikipedia about hermeneutics this is in my opinion best way to do it: "literal analysis means “a biblical text is to be deciphered according to the ‘plain meaning’ expressed by its linguistic construction and historical context.” The intention of the authors is believed to correspond to the literal meaning. Literal hermeneutics is often associated with the verbal inspiration of the Bible "

 

[Lightskin]

Obviously....if not for grace no one makes the kingdom.....

For crying out loud, the above statement was given a Red X. 😲 😲 😲

 

[mailmandan]

The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly lives loooking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed and to purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14 or so

Amen! The grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men." (Yet that does not mean that all men will accept God's gift of eternal life through faith). God's grace brings salvation through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age. Believers are to be zealous for good works, which is what we are saved FOR, but not by. (Ephesians 2:8-10)