Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Yes I noticed a certain theme in their posts over the past little while... more astonishing is that they are unmoved against their own surety of self worth and ability to embrace Grace.
No worries; they’ll be moved, and with great weeping and gnashing of teeth. That’s the fate of people who place their trust in themselves rather then in Jesus.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,573
13,550
113
58
But you’re not. Welcome to reality.

Jesus says anyone who claims they are without sin is a liar and is calling God a liar. So which is it, God is amazing or God is a liar?
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
60
28
In Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:21-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.

In Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and Campbellites. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10). *In either sense, believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Foundations - obedience, putting words into action, rock, disobedience, ignoring the words, sand.
Thats all there is there. Obviously if you believe Jesus and He says do something, your do it or you are actually in unbelief.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Water baptism is often done as being buried with Christ and resurrected. We are also washed in the Spirit in new birth, so this is an infilling, but we never rise out of the Spirit, and dry off, rather are indwelt. So the analogy does not seem to fit in the same way.
Water baptism is a symbol of a literal event

the Hs washes by immersing us in Christ.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Foundations - obedience, putting words into action, rock, disobedience, ignoring the words, sand.
Thats all there is there. Obviously if you believe Jesus and He says do something, your do it or you are actually in unbelief.
This post disturbing .... what a fickle God you serve.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
Which of those listed are you permitted to live in? If you are an unrepentant liar, then God would not be true to His word when he says in the last book of the Bible

"14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."
ok. so in one sense i was saved, because i believed in Jesus. but i wasnt at the same time because my repentance wasnt good enough.

the reason i ask is because it looks like if we take revelation and those other proof-texts that i also used to love to quote literally it would mean there is not a saved person on earth.

thats why i think you would agree with me that its talking about a lifestyle, unrepentant of a sin.

now the question is how much is too much? the bible never says amounts. this is important because if one lie can keep you out of heaven then thats rough. and in verse it says blessed are those who do His commandments, if that means again 100% obedience to all Jesus said then no one is going.

what alternative interpretation is there to these verses? tell me @anyone
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Amen, brother.
 
Nov 24, 2019
395
196
43
Virginia
www.youtube.com
But you’re not. Welcome to reality.

Jesus says anyone who claims they are without sin is a liar and is calling God a liar. So which is it, God is amazing or God is a liar?
O now, lightey, don't talk down about something God has made new! I thought you liked Jesus. Don't make me get my wife on here. She's a huge fan of what God has done.

We all start slaves of sin don't we? God is true!

Whoever sins is a slave of sin and a slave doesn't have a permanent place in the household but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free you will be free in deed. ~ Jesus Christ our Lord

Go on, now, you can believe all 3 steps of Psalm 18/2Samuel22. What a transformation! Praise the Lord.

As the Proverb says, "Happy is he who feareth alway." Happy, happy, happy! Might even be the joy of the Lord!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I blasphemed? 😆😆😆
Please elaborate.

I Consider that to be understandable to Every Believer.

It is not a Laughing matter. Jesus said it is the ONE and only Unforgivable Sin.

It is seldom verbal, but always permeated with an Unbelieving Attitude.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
ok. so in one sense i was saved, because i believed in Jesus. but i wasnt at the same time because my repentance wasnt good enough.

the reason i ask is because it looks like if we take revelation and those other proof-texts that i also used to love to quote literally it would mean there is not a saved person on earth.

thats why i think you would agree with me that its talking about a lifestyle, unrepentant of a sin.

now the question is how much is too much? the bible never says amounts. this is important because if one lie can keep you out of heaven then thats rough. and in verse it says blessed are those who do His commandments, if that means again 100% obedience to all Jesus said then no one is going.

what alternative interpretation is there to these verses? tell me @anyone
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
iran just bombed US bases in iraq..... didnt see that coming. we'll see how trump responds and everyone else too. interesting times.

finland is best place to be now. iceland even better
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
iran just bombed US bases in iraq..... didnt see that coming. we'll see how trump responds and everyone else too. interesting times.

finland is best place to be now. iceland even better
Not good.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.

Matthew 22
22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them [a]spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, [b]take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

- Many are called (the visible church)
-Few are chosen (the true bride, who prepares herself).
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.
Matthew 25
25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.


-Don't be a foolish virgin, who has no oil (Holy Spirit led life - sanctification)
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.
So its best for someone to kill you immediately after you believed in Jesus, if you want to be guaranteed for salvation?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
It is extremely sad that he does not understand that he is a sinner such as I. And all you can do make fun of it. How SAD :(.
WE are NOT making fun....we are using sarcasm to maybe, just maybe, wake them up from their self righteous slumber.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
So its best for someone to kill you immediately after you believed in Jesus, if you want to be guaranteed for salvation?
Take some time to reflect on that question. Do you believe this is God's best for you?