Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What is it about Ephesians 2:4-5 that you do not agree with?
"God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions" - Ephesians 2:4-5
Being born again is being made alive spiritually in Christ when you were dead in your sins. You don't agree with that?
"God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions" - Ephesians 2:4-5
Being born again is being made alive spiritually in Christ when you were dead in your sins. You don't agree with that?
I don't agree with your initial word games from posts ago.
You said having been born, is the same as currently being alive. (if this were true, no one would have ever died in regards to physical birth and physically being alive)
One is a past event which causes the second state.
If you admit this I will go back and copy my original post and we can start back where we left off without side stepping.
Otherwise we can just stop talking.
You said having been born, is the same as currently being alive. (if this were true, no one would have ever died in regards to physical birth and physically being alive)
One is a past event which causes the second state.
If you admit this I will go back and copy my original post and we can start back where we left off without side stepping.
Otherwise we can just stop talking.
-
1
- Show all
That is what Born Again is all about, you come to HIM begging for Forgiveness, First. (I cried and wept profusely for 2 to 3 hours, maybe that unusual, I do not know.) Then I surrendered control of my life TO HIM, out of Agape Love for Him, willingly, because I WANTED HIM TO BE IN CONTROL OF MY LIFE. Did HE Control It? How does a Nebraska Farm Boy, with no Bible College Experience, end up as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in the newest SuperMax Prison in California, to start a Prison Ministry ? ? ? You ask HIM, because only HE knows! It makes no sense to me, but I was in Prison Ministry for many Years, where the super bad boys are housed.
You LAUGHED at someone who says they were lead by the Holy Spirit to REPENT. Remember that.
Who on God's green earth would do such a thing? I would not do that if I were YOU.
1 Thessalonians 1:5 (NASB)
5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction;
just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
Mark 3:28-29 (NASB)
28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"—
-
1
- Show all
Re: 1 Corinthians 9:27 -
Consider the following:
1 Thessalonians 2:19 -
"For what is our hope, or joy, or crown [stephanos] of rejoicing? Are not even ye [plural] in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"
"After all, who is our hope, our joy, our crown [stephanos] of boasting, if it is not you yourselves [plural] in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?"
So, in this ^ context, their "crown" is said to be "saved" persons who will be "in the presence of our Lord Jesus" at that future time.
In the context of 1Cor9, Paul had just (in the previous chpt) spoken to them about "...take heed lest by any means THIS LIBERTY of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. [...] And through thy knowledge [related to "THIS LIBERTY of yours [/and implied "of ours"]"] shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?" 1Cor8:9,11.
So in the next chpt, Paul is saying (as their "apostle" [in a passage (one among several) where Paul is vindicating his apostleship]--v.1 "are not YE my work in the Lord" and v.2 "for the seal of mine apostleship are YE in the Lord"; and see also vv.12-13 where it says, "If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ [...<snip>...] they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should LIVE OF the gospel" [i.e. in the here and now, have "their living" sustained while doing the work of (IOW, be supported monitarily/financially [etc] by those to whom they are ministering)]... but then he goes on to say, "But *I* have used none of these things..." v.15. Then see vv.18-19 where Paul is showing how he himself LIMITS his own rights and freedoms (as one ministering the "holy things" so to speak) "SO THAT I might GAIN the MORE [i.e. MORE PEOPLE--Then see again my point at the top of this post]".
This, in my understanding, is what Paul means (in this context) by "obtain[ing] an INCORRUPTIBLE crown [stephanos]"... and "But I keep under my body, and bring it under subjection: lest that by any means [like, in the event of his exercising his own rights and freedoms, which are perfectly legit, but which he has restricted for the gospel's sake (that I might gain the more [more ppl])], when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" [some believe this is referring to "being a castaway" in the minds of his HEARERS/those to whom he PREACHES/his LISTENERS" MUCH LIKE it is used in his later section of 2Cor13:3-7,7b esp... (SO, his LIMITING his own rights and freedoms/liberty--what I blv v.27 also speaks to--"that I might by all means SAVE SOME" v.22 [who will then also be "in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming"--aka be a part of Paul's "crown"--like in 1Th2:19--thus making him to have been a "fellow-partaker of the gospel" (that is, in the gospel work)... Not saying, "so that he can ultimately achieve salvation by means of his efforts"])]).
Consider the following:
1 Thessalonians 2:19 -
"For what is our hope, or joy, or crown [stephanos] of rejoicing? Are not even ye [plural] in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"
"After all, who is our hope, our joy, our crown [stephanos] of boasting, if it is not you yourselves [plural] in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?"
So, in this ^ context, their "crown" is said to be "saved" persons who will be "in the presence of our Lord Jesus" at that future time.
In the context of 1Cor9, Paul had just (in the previous chpt) spoken to them about "...take heed lest by any means THIS LIBERTY of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. [...] And through thy knowledge [related to "THIS LIBERTY of yours [/and implied "of ours"]"] shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?" 1Cor8:9,11.
So in the next chpt, Paul is saying (as their "apostle" [in a passage (one among several) where Paul is vindicating his apostleship]--v.1 "are not YE my work in the Lord" and v.2 "for the seal of mine apostleship are YE in the Lord"; and see also vv.12-13 where it says, "If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ [...<snip>...] they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should LIVE OF the gospel" [i.e. in the here and now, have "their living" sustained while doing the work of (IOW, be supported monitarily/financially [etc] by those to whom they are ministering)]... but then he goes on to say, "But *I* have used none of these things..." v.15. Then see vv.18-19 where Paul is showing how he himself LIMITS his own rights and freedoms (as one ministering the "holy things" so to speak) "SO THAT I might GAIN the MORE [i.e. MORE PEOPLE--Then see again my point at the top of this post]".
This, in my understanding, is what Paul means (in this context) by "obtain[ing] an INCORRUPTIBLE crown [stephanos]"... and "But I keep under my body, and bring it under subjection: lest that by any means [like, in the event of his exercising his own rights and freedoms, which are perfectly legit, but which he has restricted for the gospel's sake (that I might gain the more [more ppl])], when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" [some believe this is referring to "being a castaway" in the minds of his HEARERS/those to whom he PREACHES/his LISTENERS" MUCH LIKE it is used in his later section of 2Cor13:3-7,7b esp... (SO, his LIMITING his own rights and freedoms/liberty--what I blv v.27 also speaks to--"that I might by all means SAVE SOME" v.22 [who will then also be "in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming"--aka be a part of Paul's "crown"--like in 1Th2:19--thus making him to have been a "fellow-partaker of the gospel" (that is, in the gospel work)... Not saying, "so that he can ultimately achieve salvation by means of his efforts"])]).
1 Corinthians 9:23 (GWT)
23 I do all this for the sake of the Good News in order to share what it offers.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NIV)
23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NJB)
23 All this I do for the sake of the gospel, that I may share its benefits with others.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NCV)
23 I do all this because of the Good News and so I can share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (ESV)
23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (MaceNT)
23 and I do all for the gospel's sake, that I may share in the benefits thereof.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NLT2)
23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (WEY)
23 And I do everything for the sake of the Good News, that I may share with my hearers in its benefits.
23 I do all this for the sake of the Good News in order to share what it offers.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NIV)
23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NJB)
23 All this I do for the sake of the gospel, that I may share its benefits with others.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NCV)
23 I do all this because of the Good News and so I can share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (ESV)
23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (MaceNT)
23 and I do all for the gospel's sake, that I may share in the benefits thereof.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (NLT2)
23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
1 Corinthians 9:23 (WEY)
23 And I do everything for the sake of the Good News, that I may share with my hearers in its benefits.
A contradiction to your NOSAS doctrine. Your only purpose here seems to be to shove your cynical, NOSAS doctrine down everyone’s throat. You really seem to enjoy being an agitator and stirring up arguments. When are you going to finally get it through your thick skull that believers in the OSAS camp do not agree with you?
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Spiritually alive.
Born again is a metaphor for new life being birthed in your body just like when your spirit entered your body when you were born.
Eternal life is a quality of life, not just a never ending life.
"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." - John 10:10
I think you're confused because you did not understand when I said you have the choice whether to live or not. I figger if you're going to insist on using the analogy of actual human birth to prove truths of the new birth (i.e. you didn't birth yourself, etc.) then let's continue the analogy and remember also that humans can decide not to live anymore.
Born again is a metaphor for new life being birthed in your body just like when your spirit entered your body when you were born.
Eternal life is a quality of life, not just a never ending life.
"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." - John 10:10
I think you're confused because you did not understand when I said you have the choice whether to live or not. I figger if you're going to insist on using the analogy of actual human birth to prove truths of the new birth (i.e. you didn't birth yourself, etc.) then let's continue the analogy and remember also that humans can decide not to live anymore.
-
2
- Show all