Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A thumbs down on this post
Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not obtained or maintained by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust exclusively in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation from beginning to end. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.
-
3
-
3
- Show all
A thumbs down on this post
The choir ( us ) shine the light and sing in unison of the great truths in scripture, of the gift of salvation, eternal and secure ...never to be earned or reclaimed.
But some prefer self over Saviour.
The choir ( us ) shine the light and sing in unison of the great truths in scripture, of the gift of salvation, eternal and secure ...never to be earned or reclaimed.
But some prefer self over Saviour.
-
4
-
2
- Show all
E
As you know we are in 1 cor 9 my friend. It has it's own context. The incorruptible crown which is the Gospel.
How do we know Paul through the Spirit is speaking of the Gospel?
Context.
And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
(1Co 9:23 KJV)
A more literal rendering looks some thing like these.
(Grammar Usage Version 1Cor 9:23) And I am doing this (on account of) the glad tidings, in order that I may become a fellow–partaker of it.«
(Diaglott 1Cor 9:23) This but I do on account of the glad tidings, that a co–partner of it I may become.
And I do this for the gospel, that I might become a fellow partaker of it.
(1Co 9:23 LITV)
And this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I might be partaker of it with you.
(1Co 9:23 Modern KJV)
So Partaker of what?
The Gospel. What Gospel?
That is answered previously in the same chapter.
If others have a share of this authority over you, rather should not we? But we have not used this authority, but we endured all things lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
(1Co 9:12 MKJV)
After verse 23 Paul then allegorically compared the Gospel to a race. Paul starts his next sentence with "know you not". He said this In relation to being a partaker of the Gospel, the Gospel of Christ. Here take a look.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
Paul in verse 23 said he did something for the Gospel's sake that he might partake of it. Then allegorically in relation to the Gospel of Christ he mentions those that run a race run to receive a prize. He finishes the thought with, "SO RUN THAT YE MAY OBTAIN"
Obtain what? The Incorruptible Crown.
What is that Crown?
The Gospel. How do we know that? Because that is what Paul through the Spirit was saying to run to obtain. The Gospel that Paul just got done saying that he was doing something for the sake of that he might be a partaker.
Then Paul after saying RUN THAT YOU MIGHT OBTAIN THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. STRIVING FOR MASTERY BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS TO RECEIVE THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. He says," I therefore so run" making it personal, bringing it back to verse 23 where he stated that he was doing something for the Gospel's sake to be a partaker of it.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal); so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
(1Co 9:23-27 KJV)
How does Paul run? He FIGHTS. Not aimlessly, not as one who has no fixed goal. But he brings his BODY under subjection, servitude to Christ through Christ. Lest by any means, when he had preached to others he himself would be a reprobate, castaway, rejected.
How do we know Paul through the Spirit is speaking of the Gospel?
Context.
And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
(1Co 9:23 KJV)
A more literal rendering looks some thing like these.
(Grammar Usage Version 1Cor 9:23) And I am doing this (on account of) the glad tidings, in order that I may become a fellow–partaker of it.«
(Diaglott 1Cor 9:23) This but I do on account of the glad tidings, that a co–partner of it I may become.
And I do this for the gospel, that I might become a fellow partaker of it.
(1Co 9:23 LITV)
And this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I might be partaker of it with you.
(1Co 9:23 Modern KJV)
So Partaker of what?
The Gospel. What Gospel?
That is answered previously in the same chapter.
If others have a share of this authority over you, rather should not we? But we have not used this authority, but we endured all things lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
(1Co 9:12 MKJV)
After verse 23 Paul then allegorically compared the Gospel to a race. Paul starts his next sentence with "know you not". He said this In relation to being a partaker of the Gospel, the Gospel of Christ. Here take a look.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
Paul in verse 23 said he did something for the Gospel's sake that he might partake of it. Then allegorically in relation to the Gospel of Christ he mentions those that run a race run to receive a prize. He finishes the thought with, "SO RUN THAT YE MAY OBTAIN"
Obtain what? The Incorruptible Crown.
What is that Crown?
The Gospel. How do we know that? Because that is what Paul through the Spirit was saying to run to obtain. The Gospel that Paul just got done saying that he was doing something for the sake of that he might be a partaker.
Then Paul after saying RUN THAT YOU MIGHT OBTAIN THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. STRIVING FOR MASTERY BEING TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS TO RECEIVE THE INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN. He says," I therefore so run" making it personal, bringing it back to verse 23 where he stated that he was doing something for the Gospel's sake to be a partaker of it.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly ( not aimlessly, i.e. not as one who has no fixed goal); so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
(1Co 9:23-27 KJV)
How does Paul run? He FIGHTS. Not aimlessly, not as one who has no fixed goal. But he brings his BODY under subjection, servitude to Christ through Christ. Lest by any means, when he had preached to others he himself would be a reprobate, castaway, rejected.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I only encourage people to read the Bible on a regular basis as often as possible and continually put your doctrinal beliefs to test by the word of God alone. It is the only way, outside of a rational sober uncorrupted mind, to correct oneself on error.
I have constantly resisted outside influences regarding doctrine if it wasn’t plainly corroborated by scripture.
On the question on wether I am sinless:
If the Bible tells you that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1), Why would you allow how someone else’s capabilities on following biblical doctrine influence your view on scripture?
It says there is a possible way to cease from sin. I’m not going to allow my carnal mind to make me void this verse simply because I find it impossible to accomplish. This thinking comes from carnal minded people who are still in the flesh.
The scripture says that they who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). And lust is the place where sins springs from (James 1:15). So it stands to reason if you eliminate the source of sin, you eliminate sin.
I have constantly resisted outside influences regarding doctrine if it wasn’t plainly corroborated by scripture.
On the question on wether I am sinless:
If the Bible tells you that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1), Why would you allow how someone else’s capabilities on following biblical doctrine influence your view on scripture?
It says there is a possible way to cease from sin. I’m not going to allow my carnal mind to make me void this verse simply because I find it impossible to accomplish. This thinking comes from carnal minded people who are still in the flesh.
The scripture says that they who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). And lust is the place where sins springs from (James 1:15). So it stands to reason if you eliminate the source of sin, you eliminate sin.
-
3
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Amen...Paul also worded it like this.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
(Php 3:13-16 KJV)
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
(Php 3:13-16 KJV)
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The words of our LORD , and I believe Him
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them,
and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life;
and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28 KJV
Those who are in Christ Jesus will not hear Matthew 7:21-23
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them,
and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life;
and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28 KJV
Those who are in Christ Jesus will not hear Matthew 7:21-23
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
-
6
- Show all
Paul is not saying run to obtain salvation. Salvation is a gift of God and not of ourselves, or do you believe the scriptures contradict themselves?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
______
This is paul telling us to be blameless BEFORE MAN and to be the cause that someone would use to discredit the gospel because OUR actions.
________
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
____
We don't do good for gain the purpose is to glorify God ... our Father
____
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
__________
If we preach the truth we are to be blameless the REWARD is that we GAIN effectiveness and usefulness to HIM our DUTY is to glorify
________
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
______
We humble ourselves before others and strive to remain blameless FOR THE GOSPELS SAKE (cause being the GOOD NEWS (gospel) TO BE EFFECTIVE)
________
@lightbearer
many have addressed every single point you made
I have addressed the context and many if not all of your points as well in this post alone.
This is a repost of two of my previous posts which have been ignored.
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
______
This is paul telling us to be blameless BEFORE MAN and to be the cause that someone would use to discredit the gospel because OUR actions.
________
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
____
We don't do good for gain the purpose is to glorify God ... our Father
____
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
__________
If we preach the truth we are to be blameless the REWARD is that we GAIN effectiveness and usefulness to HIM our DUTY is to glorify
________
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
______
We humble ourselves before others and strive to remain blameless FOR THE GOSPELS SAKE (cause being the GOOD NEWS (gospel) TO BE EFFECTIVE)
________
@lightbearer
many have addressed every single point you made
I have addressed the context and many if not all of your points as well in this post alone.
This is a repost of two of my previous posts which have been ignored.
-
2
- Show all
Yeah, just not for the cause of salvation. Nor to keep the gift God has given.
Every one of His children, remain His children.
We are BORN of incorruptible seed.
also
I am not sure you understands God chastens all of His children.
Not for success but for when we don't walk as we ought to.
Regardless of how straight the end line looked, we were His the whole time.
Every one of His children, remain His children.
We are BORN of incorruptible seed.
also
I am not sure you understands God chastens all of His children.
Not for success but for when we don't walk as we ought to.
Regardless of how straight the end line looked, we were His the whole time.
-
3
- Show all
EleventhHour,
Where did you get the “correct understanding” on the gift salvation?
I submit to you that if it’s not from the Bible alone than it cannot possibly be the “correct” understanding.
If correct doctrine on matters of faith cannot be obtained from simply reading the scriptures alone, even if read a thousand times, than we can never find the correct understanding of anything about God.
Where did you get the “correct understanding” on the gift salvation?
I submit to you that if it’s not from the Bible alone than it cannot possibly be the “correct” understanding.
If correct doctrine on matters of faith cannot be obtained from simply reading the scriptures alone, even if read a thousand times, than we can never find the correct understanding of anything about God.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
God (The Holy spirit) is our teacher. Gods inspired written scriptures are our source for correction and a gift which can help us better understand God, our Savior. These scriptures also contain the gospel. (the good news)
When man is judged, they will either be judged by their own righteousness, or the righteousness of Christ which is by grace through faith. (the good news)
-
5
- Show all