Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Where did Paul admit such? Chapter 7 in Romans? You are mistaken my friend. The context continues in chapter 8 where Paul through the Spirit speaks of being delivered from the Law of Sin and death, condemning sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us.
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 7:23-8:4 KJV)
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 7:23-8:4 KJV)
-
1
-
1
- Show all
So being a free gift then what does a person have to do to receive it? I am not really familiar with a gift requiring someone having to ask for it, or some stipulation being imposed in order to receive it, so if salvation is a free gift then why is given only to those play fast and loose with the truth.
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: John 15:22
So why did they confess to being sinners, either they were telling the truth and were or they were lying about being sinners because if he did not speak to them they had no sin. If one fears telling the truth then what would lead one to believe that it is going to get better by lying.
but now they have no cloke for their sin. John 15:22
Paul wrote that you are bought for a price, which I take refers to what Satan said about how a man will give all he has to save his life,
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 2:3
Should one consider that what is written is true in the above quoted scripture or is it inaccurate?
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: John 15:22
So why did they confess to being sinners, either they were telling the truth and were or they were lying about being sinners because if he did not speak to them they had no sin. If one fears telling the truth then what would lead one to believe that it is going to get better by lying.
but now they have no cloke for their sin. John 15:22
Paul wrote that you are bought for a price, which I take refers to what Satan said about how a man will give all he has to save his life,
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 2:3
Should one consider that what is written is true in the above quoted scripture or is it inaccurate?
Of course 1 Corinthians 9 has it's own context and the incorruptible crown is not the gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
1 Corinthians 9:16 - For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel. *Nothing there about salvation by works.
That I may be a joint partaker thereof (ina sunkoinwno autou genwmai). Literally, That I may become co-partner with others in the gospel. The point is that he may be able to share the gospel with others, his evangelistic passion. Sunkoinwno is a compound word (sun, together with, koinwno, partner or sharer). We have two genitives with it in Philippians 1:7 , though en and the locative is used in Revelation 1:9. It is found only in the N.T. and a late papyrus. Paul does not wish to enjoy the gospel just by himself.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...ictures/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-9-23.html
1 Corinthians 9:23 (AMPC) - And I do this for the sake of the good news (the Gospel), in order that I may become a participator in it and share in its [blessings along with you].
The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
Paul compared preaching the gospel to others (His ministry) to a race. Here take a look. Verse 27 - No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Just as we read in verse 18 - What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.
Earthly crowns are perishable, while heavenly crowns will be imperishable.
How many times do we have to tell you that a prize is NOT a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit.
Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph.
Strong's Concordance
brabeion: a prize
Original Word: βραβεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: brabeion
Phonetic Spelling: (brab-i'-on)
Definition: a prize
Usage: a prize.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.
The Bible mentions 5 crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) Are all of these crowns the gospel to you? Do all of these crowns represent obtaining salvation by works to you? In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns. What do those many crowns represent to you?
Paul said run to obtain the prize, not run to obtain the gospel. You are thoroughly confused and it's no surprise after reading this previous post from you:
You just don't get it. The gospel is not, "win the gold medal in an Olympic race and you will be saved." That is salvation by works.
Paul is not suggesting here that he might lose his salvation, but that he might not stand the test in regards to his service and be (disqualified for the prize - NIV) which fits the meaning of the word disqualified in the athletic context. The prize is not the gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23)
The Greek word for castaway (adokimos) in context here simply means disapproved. Paul is not in fear of losing his salvation, but is concerned in regards to his work of ministry in preaching the gospel to others.
1 Corinthians 9:16 - For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel. *Nothing there about salvation by works.
That I may be a joint partaker thereof (ina sunkoinwno autou genwmai). Literally, That I may become co-partner with others in the gospel. The point is that he may be able to share the gospel with others, his evangelistic passion. Sunkoinwno is a compound word (sun, together with, koinwno, partner or sharer). We have two genitives with it in Philippians 1:7 , though en and the locative is used in Revelation 1:9. It is found only in the N.T. and a late papyrus. Paul does not wish to enjoy the gospel just by himself.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...ictures/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-9-23.html
1 Corinthians 9:23 (AMPC) - And I do this for the sake of the good news (the Gospel), in order that I may become a participator in it and share in its [blessings along with you].
The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
Paul compared preaching the gospel to others (His ministry) to a race. Here take a look. Verse 27 - No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Just as we read in verse 18 - What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.
Earthly crowns are perishable, while heavenly crowns will be imperishable.
How many times do we have to tell you that a prize is NOT a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit.
Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph.
Strong's Concordance
brabeion: a prize
Original Word: βραβεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: brabeion
Phonetic Spelling: (brab-i'-on)
Definition: a prize
Usage: a prize.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.
The Bible mentions 5 crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) Are all of these crowns the gospel to you? Do all of these crowns represent obtaining salvation by works to you? In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns. What do those many crowns represent to you?
Paul said run to obtain the prize, not run to obtain the gospel. You are thoroughly confused and it's no surprise after reading this previous post from you:
You just don't get it.
The gospel is not, "win the gold medal in an Olympic race and you will be saved." That is salvation by works. Paul is not suggesting here that he might lose his salvation, but that he might not stand the test in regards to his service and be (disqualified for the prize - NIV) which fits the meaning of the word disqualified in the athletic context. The prize is not the gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23)
The Greek word for castaway (adokimos) in context here simply means disapproved. Paul is not in fear of losing his salvation, but is concerned in regards to his work of ministry in preaching the gospel to others.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Perfect here does not mean that Job was sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time.
*Job had admitted his human sinfulness (Job 7:21; 13:26).
The word "perfect" which in Hebrew is "tam" does not necessarily imply absolute sinlessness. It signifies, rather, completeness, integrity, sincerity, but in a relative sense. The Hebrew term tam is equivalent to the Greek teleios, which is often translated perfect in the NT but which is better translated "full grown" or "mature," as I already explained to you in post #28.
In regards to man being sinless:
Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
Romans 3:23 - For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
*Job had admitted his human sinfulness (Job 7:21; 13:26).
The word "perfect" which in Hebrew is "tam" does not necessarily imply absolute sinlessness. It signifies, rather, completeness, integrity, sincerity, but in a relative sense. The Hebrew term tam is equivalent to the Greek teleios, which is often translated perfect in the NT but which is better translated "full grown" or "mature," as I already explained to you in post #28.
In regards to man being sinless:
Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
Romans 3:23 - For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
-
7
- Show all
Amen! 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
*Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
*Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
-
5
- Show all
@lightbearer if you want to keep copy and pasting your posts filled with error and worldly commentary on scripture
I can keep copy and pasting the multitude of posts which disprove and silly claim you have made.
You are spamming.
Your "argument" has no more substance than "nuh uh im right im right"
Fruitless and far from God.
You claim others weren't addressing points, I then addressed them all and even more from the same chapter.
You then copy and pasted the same thing.
You have no desire to further a discussion or share truth, just seem to want to annoy others until they agree with the nonsense that has been disproven?
Paul is clear. Clearly in disagreement with your false doctrine.
I can keep copy and pasting the multitude of posts which disprove and silly claim you have made.
You are spamming.
Your "argument" has no more substance than "nuh uh im right im right"
Fruitless and far from God.
You claim others weren't addressing points, I then addressed them all and even more from the same chapter.
You then copy and pasted the same thing.
You have no desire to further a discussion or share truth, just seem to want to annoy others until they agree with the nonsense that has been disproven?
Paul is clear. Clearly in disagreement with your false doctrine.
-
3
- Show all
Of course 1 Corinthians 9 has it's own context and the incorruptible crown is not the gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
1 Corinthians 9:16 - For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel. *Nothing there about salvation by works.
That I may be a joint partaker thereof (ina sunkoinwno autou genwmai). Literally, That I may become co-partner with others in the gospel. The point is that he may be able to share the gospel with others, his evangelistic passion. Sunkoinwno is a compound word (sun, together with, koinwno, partner or sharer). We have two genitives with it in Philippians 1:7 , though en and the locative is used in Revelation 1:9. It is found only in the N.T. and a late papyrus. Paul does not wish to enjoy the gospel just by himself.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...ictures/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-9-23.html
1 Corinthians 9:23 (AMPC) - And I do this for the sake of the good news (the Gospel), in order that I may become a participator in it and share in its [blessings along with you].
The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
Paul compared preaching the gospel to others (His ministry) to a race. Here take a look. Verse 27 - No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Just as we read in verse 18 - What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.
Earthly crowns are perishable, while heavenly crowns will be imperishable.
How many times do we have to tell you that a prize is NOT a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit.
Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph.
Strong's Concordance
brabeion: a prize
Original Word: βραβεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: brabeion
Phonetic Spelling: (brab-i'-on)
Definition: a prize
Usage: a prize.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.
The Bible mentions 5 crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) Are all of these crowns the gospel to you? Do all of these crowns represent obtaining salvation by works to you? In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns. What do those many crowns represent to you?
Paul said run to obtain the prize, not run to obtain the gospel. You are thoroughly confused and it's no surprise after reading this previous post from you:
You just don't get it. The gospel is not, "win the gold medal in an Olympic race and you will be saved." That is salvation by works.
Paul is not suggesting here that he might lose his salvation, but that he might not stand the test in regards to his service and be (disqualified for the prize - NIV) which fits the meaning of the word disqualified in the athletic context. The prize is not the gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23)
The Greek word for castaway (adokimos) in context here simply means disapproved. Paul is not in fear of losing his salvation, but is concerned in regards to his work of ministry in preaching the gospel to others.
1 Corinthians 9:16 - For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel. *Nothing there about salvation by works.
That I may be a joint partaker thereof (ina sunkoinwno autou genwmai). Literally, That I may become co-partner with others in the gospel. The point is that he may be able to share the gospel with others, his evangelistic passion. Sunkoinwno is a compound word (sun, together with, koinwno, partner or sharer). We have two genitives with it in Philippians 1:7 , though en and the locative is used in Revelation 1:9. It is found only in the N.T. and a late papyrus. Paul does not wish to enjoy the gospel just by himself.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...ictures/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-9-23.html
1 Corinthians 9:23 (AMPC) - And I do this for the sake of the good news (the Gospel), in order that I may become a participator in it and share in its [blessings along with you].
The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16)
Paul compared preaching the gospel to others (His ministry) to a race. Here take a look. Verse 27 - No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Just as we read in verse 18 - What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.
Earthly crowns are perishable, while heavenly crowns will be imperishable.
How many times do we have to tell you that a prize is NOT a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit.
Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph.
Strong's Concordance
brabeion: a prize
Original Word: βραβεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: brabeion
Phonetic Spelling: (brab-i'-on)
Definition: a prize
Usage: a prize.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.
The Bible mentions 5 crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10) Are all of these crowns the gospel to you? Do all of these crowns represent obtaining salvation by works to you? In Revelation 19:12, we read that when Jesus returns, on His head will be many crowns. What do those many crowns represent to you?
Paul said run to obtain the prize, not run to obtain the gospel. You are thoroughly confused and it's no surprise after reading this previous post from you:
You just don't get it.
The gospel is not, "win the gold medal in an Olympic race and you will be saved." That is salvation by works. Paul is not suggesting here that he might lose his salvation, but that he might not stand the test in regards to his service and be (disqualified for the prize - NIV) which fits the meaning of the word disqualified in the athletic context. The prize is not the gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23)
The Greek word for castaway (adokimos) in context here simply means disapproved. Paul is not in fear of losing his salvation, but is concerned in regards to his work of ministry in preaching the gospel to others.
at this point it is spam....
-
3
- Show all
