Not By Works
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Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225): In short, faith in one of two gods cannot possibly admit us to the dispensation of the other, so that it should impute righteousness to those who believe in him, and make the just live through him, and declare the Gentiles to be his children through faith. Such a dispensation as this belongs wholly to Him through whose appointment it was already made known by the call of this self-same Abraham, as is conclusively shown by the natural meaning. Tertullian, Against Marcion, Book 5, Chapter 3
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@SoulWeaver we are playing nice together.
It does happen.... I blame it on @blue_ladybug she stirs up all the contention...
Oh boy I wonder if she heard me!!
It does happen.... I blame it on @blue_ladybug she stirs up all the contention...
Oh boy I wonder if she heard me!!
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no
by believing that the rod of Moses devoured the serpents of Pharaoh's sorcerers, so that they were contained within it.
by believing that Noah was inside the ark, sealed inside and out with atonement, which door God Himself shut.
by believing that the Ministry of Condemnation engraved in stone was contained within the wood of the ark which testifies, covered with gold, under the seat of mercy in which is the presence of God, sprinkled with blood.
by believing that God Himself was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin. that He picked up my burden, like the gates of the wicked city, and carried it away, as tho to Hebron, on His shoulder.
by believing west is far from east, and the bottom of the sea is practically inaccessible.
as i said, i am not one of those who think God denied God in order to absolve us. He cannot deny Himself.
He made an immovable object, and He moved it.
by believing that the rod of Moses devoured the serpents of Pharaoh's sorcerers, so that they were contained within it.
by believing that Noah was inside the ark, sealed inside and out with atonement, which door God Himself shut.
by believing that the Ministry of Condemnation engraved in stone was contained within the wood of the ark which testifies, covered with gold, under the seat of mercy in which is the presence of God, sprinkled with blood.
by believing that God Himself was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin. that He picked up my burden, like the gates of the wicked city, and carried it away, as tho to Hebron, on His shoulder.
by believing west is far from east, and the bottom of the sea is practically inaccessible.
as i said, i am not one of those who think God denied God in order to absolve us. He cannot deny Himself.
He made an immovable object, and He moved it.
the verse says, "we esteemed Him stricken"
it doesn't say He was stricken. it says we thought it looked like He was
maybe we're on the same page, actually
i understand you assuming i agree with the majority position on this topic, but it turns out, i don't
i believe He bore my sin. that isn't equivalent to i believe He is God, and that when He sang Psalm 22, He was speaking as the Son of Man, as Israel -- as a sign to Israel, of what they thought vs. what is reality. towards the end of Psalm 22, it is written, "He has not hidden His face from them" -- rather, He held out His hands all day to them, but they would not. they thought, God has forsaken us, but He was right there, at the door, the whole time.
it doesn't say He was stricken. it says we thought it looked like He was
maybe we're on the same page, actually
i understand you assuming i agree with the majority position on this topic, but it turns out, i don't
i believe He bore my sin. that isn't equivalent to i believe He is God, and that when He sang Psalm 22, He was speaking as the Son of Man, as Israel -- as a sign to Israel, of what they thought vs. what is reality. towards the end of Psalm 22, it is written, "He has not hidden His face from them" -- rather, He held out His hands all day to them, but they would not. they thought, God has forsaken us, but He was right there, at the door, the whole time.
by His knowledge shall The Righteous One, My Servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and He shall bear their iniquities.
(Isaiah 53:11)
this says i am accounted righteous by His knowledge -- isn't that imputed righteousness? (Isaiah 53:11)
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Imputation implies that it is Christ's actual righteousness that God counts on our behalf. Accounted means God counts something that is not yet a reality but will be. We are accounted righteous because to God the process is complete, but it is still a process for us. We still learn the ways of righteousness and as we walk we become righteous in fact. Of course, we'll never get there until the end.
the verse says, "we esteemed Him stricken"
it doesn't say He was stricken. it says we thought it looked like He was
maybe we're on the same page, actually
i understand you assuming i agree with the majority position on this topic, but it turns out, i don't
i believe He bore my sin. that isn't equivalent to i believe He is God, and that when He sang Psalm 22, He was speaking as the Son of Man, as Israel -- as a sign to Israel, of what they thought vs. what is reality. towards the end of Psalm 22, it is written, "He has not hidden His face from them" -- rather, He held out His hands all day to them, but they would not. they thought, God has forsaken us, but He was right there, at the door, the whole time.
it doesn't say He was stricken. it says we thought it looked like He was
maybe we're on the same page, actually
i understand you assuming i agree with the majority position on this topic, but it turns out, i don't
i believe He bore my sin. that isn't equivalent to i believe He is God, and that when He sang Psalm 22, He was speaking as the Son of Man, as Israel -- as a sign to Israel, of what they thought vs. what is reality. towards the end of Psalm 22, it is written, "He has not hidden His face from them" -- rather, He held out His hands all day to them, but they would not. they thought, God has forsaken us, but He was right there, at the door, the whole time.
by His knowledge shall The Righteous One, My Servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and He shall bear their iniquities.
(Isaiah 53:11)
this says i am accounted righteous by His knowledge -- isn't that imputed righteousness?
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