Not By Works

[posthuman]

John 5:24 is baby milk, not the meat of the word.
If you don't believe me, keep reading....

. . . & here is some of what the author of the letter to the Hebrews says is "meat":

in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. ​

(Hebrews 5:7-11)​

​

• the Sonship of Christ
• the perfection of Christ
• the Authorship of eternal salvation
• the priesthood of Christ

seeing that John 5:24 -- whoever believes in Him has eternal life -- is concerned with the perfect saving work of our great High Priest and Lord, according to what you point out in Hebrews, it seems to me that speaking of this, and understanding this, is our spiritual "meat" -- whereas speaking of repentance and doing what is good, turning from what is evil, is spiritual "milk"

 

[posthuman]

The "teaching about righteousness" through which we "distinguish good from evil" is the solid food of the Bible that mature/maturing believers chew on.

read the passage, m8

everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.​

(Hebrews 5:13-14)​

​

solid food is for those who have already been well-acquainted with milk. to wit: those who have already understood and who already practice discerning good and evil.

that makes practicing walking in righteousness, milk.
something very important, to be sure -- but something elementary. something basic.
if that's all someone has to talk about, they are not speaking skillfully in the word of righteousness.

read the passage, m8

leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God ​

(Hebrews 6:1)​

​

an 'elementary principle' of Christ is repenting from dead works.
another basic thing is having faith in God.

if distinguishing good from evil & trusting in God is all we have to talk about, we're not being skillful with the word.

yes, the word of God is our sword. let's illustrate:
do what is right? repent from sin? exercise faith in God?
these are your basic overhead strikes with the Sword of the Spirit. you pick it up and swing it like a baseball bat or a club. it's anyone's first instinct with a sword in their hand; swing it like an axe splitting wood:

there's your 'distinguish good from evil'
pointy end goes in the other person. swing it at them.
sure, it's useful. yes, it's proper. but that's not skillfulness.
you give a 5 year old kid a stick and tell him play swordfight, this is what he'll do, with no training whatsoever.
you take a brand-new believer who has just been supernaturally given a glimpse of the reality of the sin and salvation and the person of God and what doe they do? they say wow, i have been so wrong in my life, i need to clean up my act! i have been so wicked! God have mercy!
it's good. it's right. it's true.
and it's milk.




now the scripture says here is meat: the working of salvation through humility; knowledge of the person of Christ, the Authorship of salvation and understanding of His priesthood.
this is what skillfulness with the sword of the Spirit looks like:

guy on the left?
that's the guy saying the meat of the word is repent from sin.
guy on the left? that's the guy saying the meat of the word is the person and work of Jesus Christ the Son of God who alone works Salvation.

make sense yet?
this is 3 times now you've put yourself out there to teach me something about scripture by misquoting it.
you misspoke Romans 7, you had Matthew 18 contradicted, and now you've got Hebrews 5-6 upside down.
Christ is our Savior. it is by grace through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast. that ain't simple.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Morning all...
I know all of us who believe we have eternal life in Christ right now believe in this post

 

[posthuman]

guy on the left?
that's the guy saying the meat of the word is repent from sin.

please look at this. look closely and learn something about skillfulness with the sword.

you're here on the left, and you've got your pointy 'sin is bad' end aimed at the other guy, @Judges1318

but the power of sin is knocked offline, it's threat removed.
our Passover Lamb has been slain. krumphau.
the law - which the power of sin - tries to recover and strike from the opposite side, but it is pushed up toward heaven.
Christ is risen. nachreisen.
it would strike again through the flesh in a snapping blow to the ear, but it is countered quickly.
we walk by the Spirit, not by the flesh. zwerchau.
sin is wholly constrained and made powerless. it is broken. death has no more sting.
our High Priest lives forever to make intercession; binden. get a good look at my pommel. read The Name engraved on it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure, but I'm leaving Ohio back to San Diego on Greyhound tonight. Please pray for a pleasing trip and safe return. Thanks and God bless you all.

be safe! And don't bring anythign bad back to Ohio lol

OH..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A wonderful amazing gift was given unto us,one which we didn't earn nor deserve. It was given out of love.
This gift holds the greatest love known to man. It severs our slavery to sin and sets us free from death's penalty.
However with this gift which is free, comes a covenant or contract,which in essence is an agreement between two parties.
In accepting this wonderful gift and covenant,there are clauses, for example we love Him because He first loved us and therefore we are to love our brethern.
This covenant holds much benefit for UPHOLDING our part,we get to be partakers with the Son of God,we are afforded protection,we have been granted access to the greatest power,a power that can SPEAK and it be so!
We can be enlightened and have understanding and wisdom in the teacher,the Holy Ghost!
We have someone who moves heaven and earth to help us grow strong in our belief in Him and his word.
HE offers us ALL by accepting this gift which makes us party to His covenant.

To receive all the promises,blessings,grace,mercy,forgiveness and whatever is bestowed on us for receiving said gift,we MUST meet ALL the requirements He asks of us!

Or else this gift is rejected and the covenant broken!

Here is the requirement

Perfection.

If you sin just once. Here is the verdict

rom 3: 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..

Here is the good news.

Rom 3: 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I won't say anyone is not a partaker of the gift of SALVATION,only God knows the heart!

I WILL say if that's ALL any have received from God's mighty storehouse,then I pity them!

Thinking with a CARNAL mind in carnal applications makes you miss the SPIRITUAL WITH THE SPIRITUAL!

I am thinking.. what good is it if we store up all these works. and when we get to recieve our reward we find all the word we did was for nought because we failed to do the one thing which could save us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lies? I can read English. I"m told that OSAS says one can be "out of fellowship with God while still saved". Where is that in Scripture? No where. What IS in Scripture is "he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad." See? The Spiritual Switzerland that OSAS seeks to establish cannot be.

Your still lying

When I was in the military, I was out of fellowship with my father, yet I was still his son

When I disobeyed him and went off and did something against his will. I was out of fellowship with him. Yet I was still his son

Your problem is not against OSAS, Your problem is against the word. You forget, we are born of Blood, New creatures. We can break fellowship. But we can;t break blood

And oh by the way, My father punished me when I got home. My father in heaven punishes me also.

Maybe you have not experienced that, and that is why you can not comprehend it?

 

[Judges1318]

For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

"13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness." - Hebrews 5:13

You grouped the word of righteousness (distinguishing good from evil-vs.14) in with the baby milk.
But as you can see in the verse above, babies who only drink milk are NOT acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

And that's what I've been saying.
Osas, even if it is true, is baby milk, and those who only drink that and think that's the porterhouse steak of the gospel are not acquainted with the teaching about righteous living, which is the distinguishing of good from evil:

"14 But solid food (the teaching about righteousness, see vs. 13 above) is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." - Hebrews 5:14

The teaching about righteousness is solid food, not baby milk, and trains us to distinguish good from evil. That teaching is what counts and matters in the kingdom because acting righteously is what being a Christian is all about. Baby milk doctrines about the nature of Christ, baptisms, end-times, etc. are important, and even edifying, but they do not constitute that which trains us to be mature saints who walk in righteous works. The church is stuck on the baby milk and does not feed on the food of the mature. How do we know? By the simple fact it is not known for it's righteous living.

 

[G2RBeliever]

" out of fellowship" = sin and the wages of sin is death,spiritual death,no longer a part of the sonship.

Follow the whole word of God and don't pick and choose scripture that a MAN has formed a doctrine from!

 

[Lightskin]

Paul never said obedience is optional, which is what you're implying. He said we have a choice to as to who we're going to serve: "...whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness." That doesn't sound to me like we have an option to stop doing that which caused the death of our dear Savior.

Acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the obedience that Paul is speaking about. Romans 10:9-10 says it all.

 

[EleventhHour]

" out of fellowship" = sin and the wages of sin is death,spiritual death,no longer a part of the sonship.

Follow the whole word of God and don't pick and choose scripture that a MAN has formed a doctrine from!

Salvation is not a temporary status, nor is it some kind of revolving door.

No one who has been born from above>>>> spiritually regenerated goes back to spiritual death... this is not in scripture.

You are confusing when scripture is referring to salvation and when it is referring to fellowship with God.

That is a problem.

 

[Judges1318]

. . . & here is some of what the author of the letter to the Hebrews says is "meat":

in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. ​

(Hebrews 5:7-11)​

​

• the Sonship of Christ
• the perfection of Christ
• the Authorship of eternal salvation
• the priesthood of Christ

As I explain in my previous post, this is baby milk. The meat of the word is the word that trains us up into righteous living.

seeing that John 5:24 -- whoever believes in Him has eternal life -- is concerned with the perfect saving work of our great High Priest and Lord, according to what you point out in Hebrews, it seems to me that speaking of this, and understanding this, is our spiritual "meat" -- whereas speaking of repentance and doing what is good, turning from what is evil, is spiritual "milk"

No, this is baby milk. This is not the distinguishing of good from evil, the teaching about righteousness, the food of the mature/maturing who are ready to grow up into the stature of Christ. The author told them they needed to taught the baby milk doctrines all over again:

"you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!" - Hebrews 5:14

And that's what he's doing in the milk passages you posted. Really, really good for babies, and tastes great, but milk nonetheless......and unable to train a person up into that which really counts and matters in the kingdom--righteous living.

 

[posthuman]

Baby milk doctrines about the nature of Christ, baptisms, end-times

show me where Hebrews calls the nature of Christ "baby milk" ?

you're making this stuff up.

let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works
(Hebrews 6:1)
​

it can't be any more plain, but you insist on contradicting it.
repentance from sin is a basic foundational thing that is milk.

Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him; called of God an High Priest after the order of Melchisedec, of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.​

(Hebrews 5:8-11)
​

the nature of Christ & the authorship of salvation is meat and hard to be uttered -- things which we cannot go on to speak about if we have to keep talking about the simplest facets of the Way, to repent from sin and put trust in God.

what do you think, a person says 'ah now i have been a Christian for 50 years, finally i have learned that i should repent from sin!'
????
is that really what you think?
that from day 1 you understood who the Son of God is, and that growing in knowledge of Him means finally figuring out that sin is wrong and ya ought not do it?

 

[mailmandan]

Acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the obedience that Paul is speaking about. Romans 10:9-10 says it all.

From previous conversations in the past, I've noticed that works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience that "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works.

In regards to Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense - "servants of sin unto death," or "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being servants of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become servants of righteousness."

*Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

*Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

" out of fellowship" = sin and the wages of sin is death,spiritual death,no longer a part of the sonship.

Follow the whole word of God and don't pick and choose scripture that a MAN has formed a doctrine from!

so what your saying is, is that our father in heaven is LESS of a loving father than our physical parents on earth?

I dear pray I am reading you wrong here. Because if your saying what I think you are. Thats what you rimplying (plus your red x)

The penalty of sin is death

The GIFT of God is life

Follow all scripture. We are made children by the power of God. based on faith. Not on our performance. Our perfomrance here on earth will only grant us Hell

As one of our elders like to say, Any day he wakes up and he is not in Hell is a good day, Because thats where he deserves to be.

It worries me you and Your buddies here do not understand this

 

[posthuman]

The teaching about righteousness is solid food, not baby milk, and trains us to distinguish good from evil.

read the passage, friend.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.​

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
(Hebrews 5:13-14)
​

strong meat is for those who already have sorted out and practiced discerning good and evil
that makes 'discerning good and evil' and practicing it, milk. fundamental. the building blocks of moving on.

 

[Lightskin]

I won't say anyone is not a partaker of the gift of SALVATION,only God knows the heart!

I WILL say if that's ALL any have received from God's mighty storehouse,then I pity them!

Thinking with a CARNAL mind in carnal applications makes you miss the SPIRITUAL WITH THE SPIRITUAL!

It’s astonishing that we who recognize and rejoice in God’s irrevocable gift of grace through faith are seen by you as being carnal. Tell me, do you look at Black people and see them as n...? Because that is exactly the equivalent disparaging view that you see us.

 

[posthuman]

Baby milk doctrines about the nature of Christ, baptisms, end-times, etc.

have you not noticed that John wrote Revelation near the end of his life?
did it not dawn on you that Daniel received his visions of the ends of days when he was old?

whatcha think, every newborn babe in Christ fully comprehends these prophecies, understands the nature of the triune God becoming incarnate and dying, and maybe once they've gotten gray hair and become wise in old age, they can move on to discovering they should not covet or commit adultery?

you're completely upside down.

 

[Lightskin]

From previous conversations in the past, I've noticed that works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience that "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works.

In regards to Romans 6:16, there is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense - "servants of sin unto death," or "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being servants of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become servants of righteousness."

*Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

*Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

With each passing day, the parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector, Luke 18:9-14, becomes increasingly more profound to me. How is it that our works salvationists don’t recognize the cataclysmic error of their ways?