Not By Works
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Who?
Don't post something from three or five years ago.
Who, active in this forum, says works earn God's declaration of righteousness?
Who has been posting that?
I know of one, maybe two people in all 34 years of being Christian that said that, but show me who is saying that here.
I'm not saying there isn't any.
I honestly want you to point them out to me if they are here.
Don't post something from three or five years ago.
Who, active in this forum, says works earn God's declaration of righteousness?
Who has been posting that?
I know of one, maybe two people in all 34 years of being Christian that said that, but show me who is saying that here.
I'm not saying there isn't any.
I honestly want you to point them out to me if they are here.
Only in recent years did I get off the fence between osas and non-osas.
The reason I did was because I realized from reading all the Bible that there was another legitimate way to see Jesus' plain words in John besides the osas way, and, I quit holding doctrine that made the Bible not really mean what it says. Osas has to make many passages of the Bible 'not really' mean what they say in order to protect itself.
Believing is not a burden.
In fact, the Bible says faith is the victory.
Did you know this?
But so many here say continuing in 'believing', as the Bible exhorts us to do, is works.
Quite amazing.
I never would have guessed the church would come to this.
You couldn't utter that kind of doctrine in the church 30 years ago.
We all knew how absurd and ridiculous it was.
It didn't even come up for discussion because it was so ridiculous.
The reason I did was because I realized from reading all the Bible that there was another legitimate way to see Jesus' plain words in John besides the osas way, and, I quit holding doctrine that made the Bible not really mean what it says. Osas has to make many passages of the Bible 'not really' mean what they say in order to protect itself.
Believing is not a burden.
In fact, the Bible says faith is the victory.
Did you know this?
But so many here say continuing in 'believing', as the Bible exhorts us to do, is works.
Quite amazing.
I never would have guessed the church would come to this.
You couldn't utter that kind of doctrine in the church 30 years ago.
We all knew how absurd and ridiculous it was.
It didn't even come up for discussion because it was so ridiculous.
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Many works-salvationists have already been banned but there are still more here. I will compile some posts for you in the morning and works-salvationists don’t generally come straight out and say that works actually “earn” their salvation, but they clearly teach we are saved by faith + works, which places merit on works whether they admit it or not. On a different Christian forum, a Roman Catholic made this statement yesterday:
Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).
Keeping the commandments is what “holiness” is. So we are told to “strive”/try/do our best to keep the commandments, as doing so is essential for salvation.
That same Roman Catholic made this statement to me:
I don’t teach “salvation by works” - I teach salvation by faith and works. I quoted Janes 2:24 because it says the same thing - we are saved by faith and works.
Guilty as charged!
Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).
Keeping the commandments is what “holiness” is. So we are told to “strive”/try/do our best to keep the commandments, as doing so is essential for salvation.
That same Roman Catholic made this statement to me:
I don’t teach “salvation by works” - I teach salvation by faith and works. I quoted Janes 2:24 because it says the same thing - we are saved by faith and works.
Guilty as charged!
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Not "self righteousness" --- confidence. A man is never to lean on his own understanding, but when his spiritual propositions rest on the foundation of God's Infallible Word, anything less than full confidence in their ability to stand the test of Biblical scrutiny is distrust in God Himself.
OSAS has to be propped up by pillars of emotionalism, insult, ridicule, and circled wagons of psuedo-intellectualism, because if left to stand by its own merits, it's crushed under the weight of Biblical reason.
OSAS has to be propped up by pillars of emotionalism, insult, ridicule, and circled wagons of psuedo-intellectualism, because if left to stand by its own merits, it's crushed under the weight of Biblical reason.
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The whole context of scripture shows us that these promises are true for the person who continues to believe. That's in line with the 'old' osas which says the true believer can't stop believing, but which doesn't jibe with the rest of scripture.
The 'new' osas says it doesn't matter if you stop believing and go back to your old life of sin, these promises are still yours.
The 'new' osas says it doesn't matter if you stop believing and go back to your old life of sin, these promises are still yours.
Yep.
The new osas says no matter what you do or believe after salvation, that can in no way cause God to revoke the calling and gifts of the believer. If you believe that then you believe the 'new' osas. The 'old' osas is in no way shape or form in agreement with that. They defend the necessity to have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved. Did you know this?
In reference to Romans 11 where you unrightly divide out vs. 29 to make an osas argument, of all the Israelites in history who have died and went to hell, how many have not had the calling and gifts of God revoked?
The new osas says no matter what you do or believe after salvation, that can in no way cause God to revoke the calling and gifts of the believer. If you believe that then you believe the 'new' osas. The 'old' osas is in no way shape or form in agreement with that. They defend the necessity to have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved. Did you know this?
In reference to Romans 11 where you unrightly divide out vs. 29 to make an osas argument, of all the Israelites in history who have died and went to hell, how many have not had the calling and gifts of God revoked?
Says who? Of course that's the only way to "Christian Origination". The problem with OSAS is not with that, but with "Christian Obligation"..which OSAS itself twists into wantonness.
By explicitation, no...but by implication, most certainly. It's the unavoidable consequence of OSAS by it's very name, so just own it, why don't you?
It ain't "strawman" to expose OSAS for the error that it is by the Bible's own declaration that the eternal fate of some saints will be worse than before they became saints if they fall away from God.
By explicitation, no...but by implication, most certainly. It's the unavoidable consequence of OSAS by it's very name, so just own it, why don't you?
It ain't "strawman" to expose OSAS for the error that it is by the Bible's own declaration that the eternal fate of some saints will be worse than before they became saints if they fall away from God.
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Being saved, followed Him.
What has my wife done today with me as her head? Our relationship was invented as a depiction of Christ and His true Church (which is why Satan has tried to destroy marriage as God invented it.) If she chose to take off and go elsewhere with another guy, well, very possible she won’t make it with me across the finish line.
What has my wife done today with me as her head? Our relationship was invented as a depiction of Christ and His true Church (which is why Satan has tried to destroy marriage as God invented it.) If she chose to take off and go elsewhere with another guy, well, very possible she won’t make it with me across the finish line.
i did the math here a few days ago -- here is a link to the specific post:
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4217514
the parable in Matthew 18 involves almost 18.1 billion dollars in gold, versus about $150 in silver.
the meanings attached to 'gold' and 'silver' in the law are not insignificant to the understanding of the parable.
i believe it is good to be accurate when we can be
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4217514
the parable in Matthew 18 involves almost 18.1 billion dollars in gold, versus about $150 in silver.
the meanings attached to 'gold' and 'silver' in the law are not insignificant to the understanding of the parable.
i believe it is good to be accurate when we can be
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