Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#137,362
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#137,362
Guojing said:
were, not are. The gospel of the kingdom that was preached, before Paul, required faith AND works.
Click to expand...
How so?

(Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness)

(Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works)

Paul is quoting from David who was under the old covenant, therefore the kingdom then was precisely the same under the new covenant after the death of Christ. Abraham was not under the old covenant.

Think of the 3 time periods where Scripture is placed: Time past, but now, the age to come.

We are in the But now time period, where it is faith apart from works.
Click to expand...
See Rom 4:3 - 9

We are already in the age "to come".

(Mark 10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.)

(1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.)
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,364
#137,364
GandalfTheWhite said:
So where was God's marriage contract with Israel or His bill of divorce? Can you show me a copy?

Abba Father is using spoken word to put things in place. :)

Thank you all for an interesting 3 days.

God bless friends
Click to expand...
This was my point...

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1 John 2:1
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#137,366
Feb 15, 2017
9,015
4,430
113
#137,366
Guojing said:
were, not are. The gospel of the kingdom that was preached, before Paul, required faith AND works.

Think of the 3 time periods where Scripture is placed: Time past, but now, the age to come.

We are in the But now time period, where it is faith apart from works.
Click to expand...
So how were they saved then?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,367
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#137,367
Guojing said:
For you, you are quoting the wrong post.

I was saying that you don't need to know nor understand anything about the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, in order to preach the gospel of the kingdom.
Click to expand...
wow................!!! this is wrong on so many levels.......
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,369
#137,369
Guojing said:
For you, you are quoting the wrong post.

I was saying that you don't need to know nor understand anything about the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, in order to preach the gospel of the kingdom.
Click to expand...
What is the gospel of the kingdom?
This is not making sense to me... unless the Gospel of the Kingdom is something different in your view.
I think you posted somewhere this was offered to the Jews and they declined it and then God went into Plan B?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#137,371
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#137,371
Guojing said:
You have to read the KJV more. Paul mentioned "But now" many times, especially in Romans. He is our apostle.
Click to expand...

(Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets)

But now you have some weird idea that their will be a return to a "righteousness" not witnessed by the law and the prophets.

In other words totally devoid of any biblical merit.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,372
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,372
azamzimtoti said:
(Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets)

But now you have some weird idea that their will be a return to a "righteousness" not witnessed by the law and the prophets.

In other words totally devoid of any biblical merit.
Click to expand...
It was time past during the 4 gospels.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,373
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#137,373
Guojing said:
I already stated Scripture that, while Christ was in the flesh, none of the 12 believed that Jesus had to die and they certainly were not expecting any resurrection on the 3rd day. Are you rejecting those verses in the 4 gospels?

Yet they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Luke 9:6, Matthew 10:7).

You mean you actually believe they could be preaching the death burial and resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-4) without even believing it, before it even happened?
Click to expand...
Quote a verse in context that states NONE of the 12 believed he had to die...last time I checked it was only Peter that said it, and he ALONE was rebuked by Jesus and he never AGAIN said a word about it....you guys constantly embellish the word of God while REJECTING what is does actually say......very evil!
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,375
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,375
EleventhHour said:
What is the gospel of the kingdom?
This is not making sense to me... unless the Gospel of the Kingdom is something different in your view.
I think you posted somewhere this was offered to the Jews and they declined it and then God went into Plan B?
Click to expand...
The good news that the Son of God is finally sent to the flesh to Israel. Thru God's grace he came.

Israel needed to respond in faith to that grace, which is repent and be baptized.

If they respond in faith, Jesus as the Son of God would usher Israel into their promised kingdom.

It is then that their sins will finally be remitted (Acts 3:19)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,376
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#137,376
azamzimtoti said:
The kingdom was at hand during His preaching. Entry into the kingdom came at Pentecost.

(Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son)

I'll guess you are going to argue that the Son's kingdom is not the kingdom He preached while alive.
Click to expand...
ummmmm.....Jesus said the kingdom was in them in the PRESENT tense BEFORE the 50th day.....Luke 17:20-21
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,379
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,379
dcontroversal said:
Quote a verse in context that states NONE of the 12 believed he had to die...last time I checked it was only Peter that said it, and he ALONE was rebuked by Jesus and he never AGAIN said a word about it....you guys constantly embellish the word of God while REJECTING what is does actually say......very evil!
Click to expand...
You forgot about this passage the last time you checked?

Luke 18:31-34 King James Version (KJV)

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.