Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

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BenjaminN said:
Ok, let's try. The quote you gave comes from the New Testament / Brit Chadashah, which was originally written in Greek, I think? The "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" comes from the Old Testament / Tanakh.

The quote you would like to discuss now is:


Luke 14 (ESV)

26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

as both God and Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Mesiah "hates" unrighteousness, we are called upon to "hate" the unrighteous ones that do not bear their own cross and follow him in righteousness together with us, even our old selves. If they are also following him, we are walking together, following Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Mesiah.


1 Corinthians 5 (ESV)

11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
Click to expand...
Totally unrelated

You used a Hebrew term hate

I showed where Jesus would have used that same term

Now either you take Jesus literally and declare he is commanding you to hate those peiple
or realize the word hate can also
Be seen as love less

In other words in English we would say if you do not Love me above all others. In Jesus words If you do not hate

Same meaning
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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What God hates about Esau and any nation that follows gods, (demons) is despising the birthright. The blessing of being the firstborn. Ruling in place of the father, growing up in the household, and looking forward to the authority in the same manner as the good father.

its a picture of the Christian inheriting Sonship.

There’s much to this but this is the short version. Esaus name was changed to Edom. or Adam. It’s the sin of Adam in the beginning and we see it plainly yet in our nations which God is followed.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Scripture states that God is not willing men to perish. It’s not His will that any go to hell. But, we all have a choice. We all are given a chance to say yes or no to Holy Spirits wooing. Holy Spirit is in all the world.
 
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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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#149,251
eternally-gratefull said:
Totally unrelated

You used a Hebrew term hate

I showed where Jesus would have used that same term

Now either you take Jesus literally and declare he is commanding you to hate those peiple
or realize the word hate can also
Be seen as love less

In other words in English we would say if you do not Love me above all others. In Jesus words If you do not hate

Same meaning
Click to expand...
Yeshua ha'Maschiach / Jesus the Messiah is literally saying to hate unrighteousness.
 
star

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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#149,252
This thread is "NOT BY WORKS."

Grace: Undeserved blessing

Genesis: 6:8 " and Noah found grace in the sight of God"
John:1:16 "and of his fullness have all we received grace for grace."
Romans: 1:5 " By whom we have received grace and apostleship"
Romans: 5:1 "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."

We as believers have the freedom to enter into God's presence at all times because of the privilege of His grace extended towards us.

No one can possibly do enough "works" to enter into the presence of God Almighty
 
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BenjaminN

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eternally-gratefull said:
Yep

but that’s different than hating parents and kids and spouse
Click to expand...
He calls to follow Him in righteousness, and leave behind and hate those that do not follow Him in righteousness. We are not called upon to hate parents and kids and spouses that do follow Him in righteousness.
 
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soggykitten

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Jul 3, 2020
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stonesoffire said:
What God hates about Esau and any nation that follows gods, (demons) is despising the birthright. The blessing of being the firstborn. Ruling in place of the father, growing up in the household, and looking forward to the authority in the same manner as the good father.

its a picture of the Christian inheriting Sonship.

There’s much to this but this is the short version. Esaus name was changed to Edom. or Adam. It’s the sin of Adam in the beginning and we see it plainly yet in our nations which God is followed.
Click to expand...
Genesis 25:29One day, while Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the field and was famished. 30He said to Jacob, “Let me eat some of that red stew, for I am famished.” (That is why he was also called Edom.31“First sell me your birthright,” Jacob replied.
Edom=Red
Edom.)
אֱדֽוֹם׃ (’ĕ·ḏō·wm)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 123: The name of a condiment
Verse 30. - And Esau said unto Jacob, Feed me (literally, let me swallow, an expression for eating greedily), I pray thee, with that same red pottage; - literally, of that red, red (sc. pottage), or thing, in his excitement forgetting the name of the dish (Knobel), or indicative of the haste produced by his voracious appetite (Wordsworth, Luther), though the duplication of the term red has been explained as a witty play upon the resemblance of the lentil broth to his own red skin, as thus: "Feed with that red me the red one" (Lange) - for I am faint (vide supra, ver. 29): therefore was his name called Edom - i.e. red. "There is no discrepancy in ascribing his name both to his complexion and the color of the lentil broth. The propriety of a name may surely be marked by different circumstances" (A. G. in Lunge). The Arabians are fond of giving surnames of that kind to famous persons. Cf. Akil-al Murat, which was given to Hodjr, king of the Kendites, owing to his wife saying in a passion, "He is like a camel that devours bushes" (vide Havernick, 'Introduction,' § 18).
 
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soggykitten

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eternally-gratefull said:
Totally unrelated

You used a Hebrew term hate

I showed where Jesus would have used that same term

Now either you take Jesus literally and declare he is commanding you to hate those peiple
or realize the word hate can also
Be seen as love less

In other words in English we would say if you do not Love me above all others. In Jesus words If you do not hate

Same meaning
Click to expand...
Are we ever told why God hated Esau?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,258
#149,258
BenjaminN said:
He calls to follow Him in righteousness, and leave behind and hate those that do not follow Him in righteousness. We are not called upon to hate parents and kids and spouses that do follow Him in righteousness.
Click to expand...
Excuse me, me the Passage said if we do not hate them, we can not be his disciple

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

you can not twist gods word to suit your belief system, we must make out belief system fit the Word
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#149,259
soggykitten said:
Are we ever told why God hated Esau?
Click to expand...
It says in Malichi,

it’s funny how God hated them so much, he died for them, and if they believed they would have been said like everyone else,
 
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BenjaminN

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#149,260
eternally-gratefull said:
Excuse me, me the Passage said if we do not hate them, we can not be his disciple

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

you can not twist gods word to suit your belief system, we must make out belief system fit the Word
Click to expand...
How do you interpret the passage?
 
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