Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
That passage is of great concern to me. I was still not a mature believer. I will stand in judgement, I pray that God will have mercy on me, because I have sinned.

2 Samuel 24:14And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.

1 Chronicles21:
13 So David replied to Gad, “This is a very bad choice for me to make! Let me now please fall into the hand of the Lord, because his mercy is very great, but may I never fall into human hands!”

14 Then the Lord sent a pestilence to Israel, and 70,000 men died in Israel. 15 God also sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem, but as he was about to do so, the Lord looked and withdrew[e] the calamity by saying to the destroying angel, “Enough! Stop what you’re doing!”[f]

So the angel of the Lord remained standing near the threshing floor that belonged to Ornan[g] the Jebusite.[h] 16 David looked up and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, with a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell on their faces.

So imagine living my life with no longer having the blessed assuredness of entering the kingdom. There is no boasting, no pride, no envy. I am in the hands of the living God.

I will still proclaim his good tidings.
why is it of concern to you?

It is trying to correct the jews false believe who tried to return to law.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
Ok

Are you saying that Hebrews verses does not apply to us because we confess our sins and ask for forgiveness?

If so we cannot lose our salvation, yet @SavedByBlood seems to say that we can lose salvation and then get it back because Jesus comes for us (lost sheep).

If that's the case why does not Jesus search out those in Hebrews?

Hi @SavedByBlood, pleased to meet you.

Bill
is it saying either of these?

or is it answering the question. If we fall away. can we be renewed to repentance? (As the law stated we could be sacrifice and burnt offering)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
It could be in the wisdom of God that He allowed to believe this because after receiving what I believed to be salvation, I was boastful and pride crept in.

I don't know but all things are possible through Christ.
What do you believe to be salvation?
What saves you?
What causes loss of salvation?
 
why is it of concern to you?

It is trying to correct the jews false believe who tried to return to law.
Within 2 years time of being on the road to salvation, I backslide horribly. A tremendous feeling of guilt has haunted me since. I know God can forgive me because of Christ's sacrifice. Of all negative emotions, guilt is a nagging one that is sometimes hard to overcome. It rears its ugly head every now and then.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
Yes, If your saved, Satan wants yuo to feel this guilt. so you can not serve God.

God said we can come to him with confidence. He said come to him and he will give you rest (from your work) he also said he will never leave nor forsake you.

Eternal security is in god. because it is his gift of salvation.

Legalism is from man, which is what the author of Hebrews was cryign to the jews to see.. Don;t return to the law. it will never save you, nor give you rest. Because your always trying to live up to a standard and will never achieve it.. So you either have to lower Gods standard., Lie about your sin, or deny it. Or give up and walk away (which is what satan wants you to do)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Within 2 years time of being on the road to salvation, I backslide horribly. A tremendous feeling of guilt has haunted me since. I know God can forgive me because of Christ's sacrifice. Of all negative emotions, guilt is a nagging one that is sometimes hard to overcome. It rears its ugly head every now and then.
Peter backslid (read more about the hot headed gut who chopped of a guards ear).
Thomas doubted to the extent he would not believe until he could feel the holes from the nails hammered into him on the cross.

Listen I backslid for years but I never lost my faith in Jesus.
I prayed every day for help, it took time but he delivered me.
You have been and are forgiven.
Guilt does not come from God, it is an attack of Satan.
The Holy Spirit is gentle, kind and firm with us, he reminds us of who we are in Christ.

God does not put guilt on you, your guilt was dealt with on the cross and satan will tell you it's not.

If you sin then that means you don't really love God do you?
Would the holy spirit say that to you?

NO NO NO NO NO.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Yes, If your saved, Satan wants yuo to feel this guilt. so you can not serve God.

God said we can come to him with confidence. He said come to him and he will give you rest (from your work) he also said he will never leave nor forsake you.

Eternal security is in god. because it is his gift of salvation.

Legalism is from man, which is what the author of Hebrews was cryign to the jews to see.. Don;t return to the law. it will never save you, nor give you rest. Because your always trying to live up to a standard and will never achieve it.. So you either have to lower Gods standard., Lie about your sin, or deny it. Or give up and walk away (which is what satan wants you to do)
Beat me to it.
 
What do you believe to be salvation?
What saves you?
What causes loss of salvation?

I looked it up since I seem to keep getting it wrong.
1.This is the book definition of salvation.

salvation /săl-vā′shən/

noun
  1. Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil.
  2. A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance.
  3. Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption.

2.What saves a person?
If you believe and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and was sacrificed for the sins of the world.

3.What causes loss of salvation?
The unpardonable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
Peter backslid (read more about the hot headed gut who chopped of a guards ear).
Thomas doubted to the extent he would not believe until he could feel the holes from the nails hammered into him on the cross.

Listen I backslid for years but I never lost my faith in Jesus.
I prayed every day for help, it took time but he delivered me.
You have been and are forgiven.
Guilt does not come from God, it is an attack of Satan.
The Holy Spirit is gentle, kind and firm with us, he reminds us of who we are in Christ.

God does not put guilt on you, your guilt was dealt with on the cross and satan will tell you it's not.

If you sin then that means you don't really love God do you?
Would the holy spirit say that to you?

NO NO NO NO NO.
Amen

I was a prodigal son for 5 years. I left the church and in essence God. But I know God never left me.. He was there every step of the way. and his chastening brought me back
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
I looked it up since I seem to keep getting it wrong.
1.This is the book definition of salvation.

salvation /săl-vā′shən/

noun
  1. Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil.
  2. A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance.
  3. Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption.

2.What saves a person?
If you believe and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and was sacrificed for the sins of the world.

3.What causes loss of salvation?
The unpardonable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.
as for number 3.

The people who claimed jesus did the work by the power of satan literally were committing this very sin, Yet Jesus said they were in danger of commiting this sin,

Every unbeliever is daily practicing this sin, the sin of unbelief

Jesus said the were in danger because they still had time to repent.

As he said to nicodemus, He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already.

if we die having never put our faith in christ, we die condemned, Like the people in moses day, they were dead, bitten by serpents, their poison eating at their bodies.

Whoever looked in faith to the serpent moses raised, lived, Whoever did not. lived out their condemnation and suffered their fate.. because they refused to believe
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
I looked it up since I seem to keep getting it wrong.
1.This is the book definition of salvation.

salvation /săl-vā′shən/

noun
  1. Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil.
  2. A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance.
  3. Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption.

2.What saves a person?
If you believe and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and was sacrificed for the sins of the world.

3.What causes loss of salvation?
The unpardonable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.
Ok.

First let's look at what saves us as you have missed something.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has a couple of views.
It is either unbelief in Jesus or Jesus casting out devils with the power of Satan.

Not sure what book you read but it seems to contradict the Bible.

Also just to add that Jesus said he had to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirt would come.

Why?
 
Ok.

First let's look at what saves us as you have missed something.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has a couple of views.
It is either unbelief in Jesus or Jesus casting out devils with the power of Satan.

Not sure what book you read but it seems to contradict the Bible.

Also just to add that Jesus said he had to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirt would come.

Why?
I feel like this applies to me right now. Hebrews 5:12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk isunskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14But solid food belongs to those who are [c]of full age, that is,those who by reason of [d]use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

How is that I could get so far away from the very 1st and foundational principles?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
I feel like this applies to me right now. Hebrews 5:12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk isunskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14But solid food belongs to those who are [c]of full age, that is,those who by reason of [d]use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

How is that I could get so far away from the very 1st and foundational principles?
What are principles of foundation?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
1,872
113
I feel like this applies to me right now. Hebrews 5:12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk isunskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14But solid food belongs to those who are [c]of full age, that is,those who by reason of [d]use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

How is that I could get so far away from the very 1st and foundational principles?
We have a powerful enemy, If you did not have the support. it is very easy to be taken down