not of works, but created in Christ unto good works

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Jackson123 said:
I mean If after born again we murder people, we have to repent from murder, or stop murder. Like David murder uriah, than regret and not murder anymore though God still punish him and say David son Will die.

That mean God want David to obey the Lord, not kill for his wife.

1 John 2

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

In this verse also state : we know that we know Him if we keep His command.

It mean, we may think we know Him but is not.

The sign whether we know God or not is do we keep or obey His command?

Base oN These verses how people that keep murder and not repent save?
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David was under law and JESUS had not paid for our sins yet at that time so at that time the emphasis was on sin.The SPIRIT of GOD was not yet written on their hearts the way It was after JESUS paid for our sins ,the SPIRIT of GOD would come upon them but not stay so although salvation has always been by grace through faith they would be trying to be perfect In their spirits with their own strength and we know they would come short of the glory of GOD.
Until GOD makes a person’s spirit perfect they will not seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
David was under law and JESUS had not paid for our sins yet at that time so at that time the emphasis was on sin.The SPIRIT of GOD was not yet written on their hearts the way It was after JESUS paid for our sins ,the SPIRIT of GOD would come upon them but not stay so although salvation has always been by grace through faith they would be trying to be perfect In their spirits with their own strength and we know they would come short of the glory of GOD.
Until GOD makes a person’s spirit perfect they will not seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
Click to expand...

I think Jackson is using 1 John 2:3 descriptively, not prescriptively.

1 John 2:3 does not teach obey commands to stay a Christian. That would be prescriptive. It teaches that keeping Christ’s commands is corolary to knowing Jesus, that is it follows from knowing Christ, descriptive...BECAUSE we know Him

Knowing Him is the cause, not the result of our keeping His commands
 
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Macabeus said:
I think Jackson is using 1 John 2:3 descriptively, not prescriptively.

1 John 2:3 does not teach obey commands to stay a Christian. That would be prescriptive. It teaches that keeping Christ’s commands is corolary to knowing Jesus, that is it follows from knowing Christ, descriptive...BECAUSE we know Him

Knowing Him is the cause, not the result of our keeping His commands
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Maybe so but If he Is being descriptive then his description does not shed useful light.
Hopefully he will read this and be In agreement with your post.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Maybe so but If he Is being descriptive then his description does not shed useful light.
Hopefully he will read this and be In agreement with your post.
Click to expand...

Well as long as the three of us know that Apostle John was being descriptive, not prescriptive, were ok

@Jackson123 , do you believe that keeping Christ’s commands is a result of knowing Him. In other words, keeping His commands is a result of loving Jesus, and loving Jesus is the result of knowing Jesus?

I know Jesus, therefore I love Him

I love Jesus, therefore I keep His Word
 
seed_time_harvest said:
David was under law and JESUS had not paid for our sins yet at that time so at that time the emphasis was on sin.The SPIRIT of GOD was not yet written on their hearts the way It was after JESUS paid for our sins ,the SPIRIT of GOD would come upon them but not stay so although salvation has always been by grace through faith they would be trying to be perfect In their spirits with their own strength and we know they would come short of the glory of GOD.
Until GOD makes a person’s spirit perfect they will not seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
Click to expand...

Yep impossible to bear fruit of itself, but Logically speaking like what in 1 John 2 say, a sign people that know the Lord is keeping His command, why you believe keeping murder is save.

You also say Holy Spirit Will help us to be perfect. Than why you believe keeping murder save, Don't Holy Spirit help us not to keep murder?

What is the meaning of Jesus give new heart ?

To me It mean change from murderer to lover, from adulterer to lover etc.

We may fall in sin but If we keep sining like keep raping woman or keep killing people, mean we not keeping His command and base oN 1 John 2:3 mean we do not know God or not save
 
Macabeus said:
Well as long as the three of us know that Apostle John was being descriptive, not prescriptive, were ok

@Jackson123 , do you believe that keeping Christ’s commands is a result of knowing Him. In other words, keeping His commands is a result of loving Jesus, and loving Jesus is the result of knowing Jesus?

I know Jesus, therefore I love Him

I love Jesus, therefore I keep His Word
Click to expand...

Base oN 1 John 2:3 the sign of knowingly God is keep His command.

But I do not know If knowing Jesus couse keep His command.



It may, the implication of verse 3 but I do not know for sure, because of my Logic capacity not rich that level to understand If there is correlation between knowing Jesus and keeping His command.

But John also state there is correlation between loving God and loving other.

1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

But I know for sure that keeping His command is a sign of knowing Him, because It state
 
Macabeus said:
Well as long as the three of us know that Apostle John was being descriptive, not prescriptive, were ok

@Jackson123 , do you believe that keeping Christ’s commands is a result of knowing Him. In other words, keeping His commands is a result of loving Jesus, and loving Jesus is the result of knowing Jesus?

I know Jesus, therefore I love Him

I love Jesus, therefore I keep His Word
Click to expand...
I would’ve said,I’m a member In the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from HIM and HE IS love and love Is fruit of the SPIRIT of GOD and It flows through us.

All the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I would’ve said,I’m a member In the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from HIM and HE IS love and love Is fruit of the SPIRIT of GOD and It flows through us.

All the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.
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Basically the same thing I said but going into more detail. Well said

Yes, He who loves with Christ imparted love is fulfilling the spirit of the Law, which is the great commandment, and the one like unto it
 
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Jackson123 said:
Base oN 1 John 2:3 the sign of knowingly God is keep His command.

But I do not know If knowing Jesus couse keep His command.



It may, the implication of verse 3 but I do not know for sure, because of my Logic capacity not rich that level to understand If there is correlation between knowing Jesus and keeping His command.

But John also state there is correlation between loving God and loving other.

1 John 4:20
“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

But I know for sure that keeping His command is a sign of knowing Him, because It state
Click to expand...

I Am using the biblical meaning of “know” which is relational and intimate, not just intellectual knowledge
 
Jackson123 said:
Yep impossible to bear fruit of itself, but Logically speaking like what in 1 John 2 say, a sign people that know the Lord is keeping His command, why you believe keeping murder is save.

You also say Holy Spirit Will help us to be perfect. Than why you believe keeping murder save, Don't Holy Spirit help us not to keep murder?

What is the meaning of Jesus give new heart ?

To me It mean change from murderer to lover, from adulterer to lover etc.

We may fall in sin but If we keep sining like keep raping woman or keep killing people, mean we not keeping His command and base oN 1 John 2:3 mean we do not know God or not save
Click to expand...

Yep impossible to bear fruit of itself, but Logically speaking like what in 1 John 2 say, a sign people that know the Lord is keeping His command, why you believe keeping murder is save.
Click to expand...

The Bible says that those who have been reborn WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
They have been equipped by GOD and would be receiving sustenance from the VINE and display spiritual fruit.

murder Is not fruit of the SPIRIT but fruit of the flesh,by the mercies of GOD present your body to GOD sacrificing your body renewing your mind,when I say present your body a living sacrifice I mean every time you have the opportunity to display spiritual fruit which now comes easy because now you have a desire to do It,show It.

Sacrifice our flesh and Its selfish desires and renew our minds to the new us CREATED In CHRIST unto good works.

🙂Sidetone:when I say fruit I mean as a result of or because.
 
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Jackson123 said:
Yep impossible to bear fruit of itself, but Logically speaking like what in 1 John 2 say, a sign people that know the Lord is keeping His command, why you believe keeping murder is save.

You also say Holy Spirit Will help us to be perfect. Than why you believe keeping murder save, Don't Holy Spirit help us not to keep murder?

What is the meaning of Jesus give new heart ?

To me It mean change from murderer to lover, from adulterer to lover etc.

We may fall in sin but If we keep sining like keep raping woman or keep killing people, mean we not keeping His command and base oN 1 John 2:3 mean we do not know God or not save
Click to expand...

We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren

He who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no Murderer has thermal life abiding in him

In these things, you are correct
 
seed_time_harvest said:
The Bible says that those who have been reborn WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
They have been equipped by GOD and would be receiving sustenance from the VINE and display spiritual fruit.

murder Is not fruit of the SPIRIT but fruit of the flesh,by the mercies of GOD present your body to GOD sacrificing your body renewing your mind,when I say present your body a living sacrifice I mean every time you have the opportunity to display spiritual fruit which now comes easy because now you have a desire to do It,show It.

Sacrifice our flesh and Its selfish desires and renew our minds to the new us CREATED In CHRIST unto good works.

🙂Sidetone:when I say fruit I mean as a result of or because.
Click to expand...

Good post!!
 
Jackson123 said:
Seem little confusing to me.

A. You say after accepting Jesus keep rob the bank still go to heaven No need repent,

B. than you say God Will chasten you until you repent.

A you believe you do not need repent

B you believe you need repent.

So in order to go to heaven, A or B
Click to expand...
A - You do not need to repent in order to go to heaven if you are included in those that God gave to his Son to die for, because Christ paid for every sin that you will ever commit. B, - Even though you have security in going to heaven ( and I believe you and probably everyone on this forum are saved eternally) we all still do at times commit sins that will separate us from our fellowship with God until we repent. Because we are already saved eternally, we do not repent for the purpose of getting us to heaven, but for the purpose of regaining back our fellowship with God. I don't believe anyone else on this forum will agree with what I have just explained to you, but that does not negate the fact that, that is what Christ's doctrine teaches according to the scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
David was under law and JESUS had not paid for our sins yet at that time so at that time the emphasis was on sin.The SPIRIT of GOD was not yet written on their hearts the way It was after JESUS paid for our sins ,the SPIRIT of GOD would come upon them but not stay so although salvation has always been by grace through faith they would be trying to be perfect In their spirits with their own strength and we know they would come short of the glory of GOD.
Until GOD makes a person’s spirit perfect they will not seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
Click to expand...
I can very well understand why Jackson123 is so confused, between your's and my difference in what we believe the scriptures to teach. My belief is that God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), because he saw, by his foreknowledge. that none of mankind would seek him, no not one (Psalms 53:2) Those he choose are the same ones that he gave to Jesus to die for (John 6:38), and are the same ones that he will return to gather up and take to heaven at the last day (Matt 24:31). Christ's death covered all of God's elect all the way back to the creation and all the way to the last day.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
The Bible says that those who have been reborn WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
They have been equipped by GOD and would be receiving sustenance from the VINE and display spiritual fruit.

murder Is not fruit of the SPIRIT but fruit of the flesh,by the mercies of GOD present your body to GOD sacrificing your body renewing your mind,when I say present your body a living sacrifice I mean every time you have the opportunity to display spiritual fruit which now comes easy because now you have a desire to do It,show It.

Sacrifice our flesh and Its selfish desires and renew our minds to the new us CREATED In CHRIST unto good works.

🙂Sidetone:when I say fruit I mean as a result of or because.
Click to expand...
In your interpretation of the scriptures, what happens to a person that has been born again and he commits murder?
 
Macabeus said:
We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren

He who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no Murderer has thermal life abiding in him

In these things, you are correct
Click to expand...
Can you give me a scripture where it says that "no murder has eternal life abiding in him"?
 
Macabeus said:
I Am using the biblical meaning of “know” which is relational and intimate, not just intellectual knowledge
Click to expand...

If know mean relation than Yes, know God make you or mean love God, and love God mean love other, because God in you make you Chris like.
 
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seed_time_harvest said:
The Bible says that those who have been reborn WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
They have been equipped by GOD and would be receiving sustenance from the VINE and display spiritual fruit.

murder Is not fruit of the SPIRIT but fruit of the flesh,by the mercies of GOD present your body to GOD sacrificing your body renewing your mind,when I say present your body a living sacrifice I mean every time you have the opportunity to display spiritual fruit which now comes easy because now you have a desire to do It,show It.

Sacrifice our flesh and Its selfish desires and renew our minds to the new us CREATED In CHRIST unto good works.

🙂Sidetone:when I say fruit I mean as a result of or because.
Click to expand...

Yep and the bible guaranty for a branch to bear fruit If they abide in the vine
 
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ForestGreenCook said:
A - You do not need to repent in order to go to heaven if you are included in those that God gave to his Son to die for, because Christ paid for every sin that you will ever commit. B, - Even though you have security in going to heaven ( and I believe you and probably everyone on this forum are saved eternally) we all still do at times commit sins that will separate us from our fellowship with God until we repent. Because we are already saved eternally, we do not repent for the purpose of getting us to heaven, but for the purpose of regaining back our fellowship with God. I don't believe anyone else on this forum will agree with what I have just explained to you, but that does not negate the fact that, that is what Christ's doctrine teaches according to the scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize.
Click to expand...

So you believe, No need to repent as a murder for heaven but repent for back our fellowship with God

In other word you believe to go to heaven you do not need to have frllowship with God, am I correct?
 
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