Not wise to take all scriptures literally - better to prayerfully compare them to decide more accurately what the Bible teaches on things

[ForestGreenCook]

I'm still waiting on another example in the Bible where the term "twelve tribes" means something other than the nation of Israel as a whole. There are dozens of references. Just give one. One. I'll wait.

Gen 49:1-2, And Joseph fell upon his father's face, and wept upon him, and kissed him, and Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father, and the physicians embalmed "ISRAEL". Israel in this verse is not the whole 12 tribes, but is Jacob who God changed his name to be called Israel.

Exodus 28:21, And the stones shall be with the names of the children of "Israel", which is the children of Jacob.

Gen 37:3, Now "Israel" (Jacob) loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age; and he made him a coat of many colours. Israel in this verse has reference to Jacob, not all 12 of his children, if so, it would read "and the nation of Israel loved Joseph more than all his children". Do you think that is how it should have been written?

More times, than not, when the scriptures talk about Israel, they are talking about Jacob.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

There is now a remnant saved by grace in this Church age. They are included in the body of Christ and will not be here during Jacob’s trouble. During that time period, the Lord will turn Israel back to Himself, all Israel shall be saved.

All of Jacob"s Israel will be saved, but not all of the nation of Israel. Jacob is representative of all of God's elect, Fom 9:11.

 

[John146]

Gen 49:1-2, And Joseph fell upon his father's face, and wept upon him, and kissed him, and Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father, and the physicians embalmed "ISRAEL". Israel in this verse is not the whole 12 tribes, but is Jacob who God changed his name to be called Israel.

Exodus 28:21, And the stones shall be with the names of the children of "Israel", which is the children of Jacob.

Gen 37:3, Now "Israel" (Jacob) loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age; and he made him a coat of many colours. Israel in this verse has reference to Jacob, not all 12 of his children, if so, it would read "and the nation of Israel loved Joseph more than all his children". Do you think that is how it should have been written?

More times, than not, when the scriptures talk about Israel, they are talking about Jacob.

That’s not what I asked for, but oh well.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Actually, you neither want to take scripture literally nor metaphorically. Both are wrong!

You must take in the meaning God intended instead. It's like when you're talking to people, they say things with a meaning behind them. Their sentences may even be part literal part metaphorical, but in your heart you perceive the meaning directly that they intended. That's how you oughta read scripture too. Remember that they have been translated and changed a bit on their way to you, and yet that won't stop you from grasping that God intended for you.

Also, God sometimes lets us understand things at our own time, so even if you read the Bible yesterday, you might read it today and God would have you understand something new for your situation today. That is why it is important to continuously read the Bible.

Godspeed.

Well said, and true - I agree! Also, it's clear to me that there are many scriptures that are more difficult to understand than others, for people. Some of the most difficult kind, are those relating to prophesies, which uses lots of symbolisms.

 

[lenna]

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile including twelve tribes.

how convenient for you to say when you know full well he was not saying there is that division

you seem awfully hard up for acknowledging anything good about Christ. in fact, you disbelieve His words and say they are not for us

messed up theology

 

[lenna]

Then why do you think that the remnant Jews will suffer the tribulation? Did you not at one point when I mentioned I am part Jewish ask if I was looking forward to the tribulation?

he does not believe the gospels, book of Acts, James and the Peters are written for Christians

he thinks they are written only for those still under the law

you won't make sense out of his responses if you don't know this and he will continue to make it seem you don't know what you are talking about when the whole time he has a different gospel than most of us

thought you might want to know before he takes you down some rabbit trail that has nothing to do with the op so he can introduce you to the Bible without Jesus because Paul actually was the one who understood the gospel better

no I am not exaggerating

 

[MyrtleTrees]

God already knew that customs would change. Yet what is written is for all times and cultures. But if we were to go by your reasoning, Christians would be constantly trying to keep up with the current trends (just like women with their fashion trends).

Woman's head covering -- a literal covering or veil to cover the head and hair during worship. Many Christian women today have no problem with this.

The holy kiss -- in the Middle East (and some parts of Europe) men greet men, and women greet women is this fashion to this day.

The wearing of the head covering is different from the matter of whether to keep up with fashions or not. The wearing of the head covering back in Bible times was not simply a matter of fashion - but was to make it clear to others that these married women were under submission to their husbands. Most people don't understand the meaning of such a head covering nowadays, and so I don't see any good reason why it should be required in areas where it isn't well understood. However, if one still believes the head covering should be used, they ought to do it - as it is a sin to go against one's conscience. The Bible says it's always wrong to disobey one's conscience in any matter, and I know verses that say so.

As to the matter of the "holy kiss" - I didn't know that they had only women kissing women and men kissing men, if you're correct on that. But today, if people did that - it would appear to be homosexual if done in public - and God wants us to be good examples to others. We are not to appear to be approving of sin. I also don't feel God isn't angry at everyone who does not choose to greet one another with "a holy kiss." It is a custom that was used back in Bible times, to show love towards others. It is always God's will for us to act loving towards others and to show our love. But there are many good ways of showing our love towards others.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

In Matt5:48, "shall be" is "future INDICATIVE middle"... no "IMPERATIVE" [/command] in this verse.

This is ascertained solely by reading this verse for what it says.

Well what I'm saying, it isn't immediately clear to a reader who reads it for what it sounds like. The Bible has a lot of that - that's one reason we never finish learning all there can be learned about the Bible within a life time!

 

[Rosemaryx]

Yes, so who is James addressing as the ”twelve tribes”? We are to take that literal. All throughout Scripture this term is always a reference to the entire nation of Israel. To use it otherwise contradicts every other usage.

What about the scattered Jews at Stephan's stoning ?
They feared being persecuted...

 

[John146]

how convenient for you to say when you know full well he was not saying there is that division

you seem awfully hard up for acknowledging anything good about Christ. in fact, you disbelieve His words and say they are not for us

messed up theology

I'm using the bible to define itself. You go outside the bible for answers.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

It's a simple matter of knowing how to rightly divide the word of truth.

I don't think it is a simple matter, as many Christians sincerely interpret many scriptures differently from one another. And some parts of the Bible are harder for Christians to understand than others. The most important and essential thing to understand - is the way of salvation and to be sincerely living according to it, prayerfully, in daily life.

Here are some examples of how some Christians found it difficult, at least at first, to understand some spiritual truths:
*Some Christians still thought that circumcision was necessary
*Some Christians still thought that Old Testament laws should still be obeyed.
*Some Christians felt that the only day one should worship on was the Sabbath day.

1 Cor 8:9-13

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
KJV

 

[John146]

What about the scattered Jews at Stephan's stoning ?
They feared being persecuted...

They were devout Christians spreading the gospel. Read the book of James. Does what James writes seems to be this audience?

 

[Rosemaryx]

They were devout Christians spreading the gospel. Read the book of James. Does what James writes seems to be this audience?

Yes , but they were Jews who believed in Christ...

 

[John146]

Yes , but they were Jews who believed in Christ...

Absolutely! Jews in Christ are never referred to the "twelve tribes". The term "twelve tribes" is always a reference to the entire nation and never a called out group from that nation.

 

[Blain]

That’s not what I asked for, but oh well.

You need to back off, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and assumed I misunderstood you even though everything you said appeared contrary to the fact and you took advantage of that which is fine if it is me then I have no issue but when you do this with utter disregard and act so arrogant and mistreat everyone else here then you better believe I will call you out on it how dare you act superior in any way towards others when you are the one who is ignorant you are the one who is at fault you are the one who needs to study the scriptures

You have been saved for how long? And yet you are so ignorant and yet you act so unchristlike and fool yourself into thinking you are anything but that, I don't care what you do or say to me but a foolish Pharisee such as yourself has no room or right to speak to others like this so I am warning you back off now or I WILL report you and I never report anyone unless I am truly offended you know by now I usually have a calm and loving nature but if there is one that infuriates me one thing that will set me off is when people such as you act like this towards his church and trust me I have a monster inside me when I do get angry which is extremely rare it scares even me so just try to test me

 

[Blik]

David prayed in Psalms 119:18 "Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your Torah". Scripture can be read as history only, and it can be read as only spiritual. But the truth of scripture is many things at once. There is even hidden wisdom in each verse. These are revealed through the Holy spirit.

Christians often find that sometimes, after countless readings of a selection of scripture, new understanding comes to them of that passage.

 

[Blade]

Straightly cutting/ cutting straight. well your talking about rightly dividing the word.... did we get 2nd Tim 2:15 right? Is that was being told to Timothy? "Not wise to take all scriptures literally better to prayerfully compare them to decide more accurately what the Bible teaches on things"?

I like one version "keep away from godless babbling," haha. In that whole chapter not once do I see "not wise to take all the scriptures literally". I guess one could "also" say he was telling him to "talks straight". Well what does the verse above that one say?
quarreling about words, stop fighting over words, quarrel about words, wrangle about words, not to strive about words.

We should always read above and below a verse. And to then look into how it was org written. No offense please but.. why take your "comments" as truth for these verses? Do you see? You gave your personal understand..you said what those verses (can) mean not the Holy Spirit.

Anyway.. I see 2nd Tim 2:15 differently.

 

[Absolutely]

Are we to ignore the audience? To whom this letter is written? Is it to me, or for me. There is much in James that cannot apply to a Christian. Things that would violate what Paul states to the body of Christ.

Just cut out the part where WE KNOW it was indeed to the church.
You know the part.
Like laying on of hands. Elders. Church. Forgiveness of sin outside temple sacrifice.

No brainer big time.

But yeah just cut that part out.

 

[Absolutely]

True - one must be very careful not to be so careless as to make it mean whatever they want, without regard as to what God's opinion is on it. To knowingly reject any of the Bible truths in the Bible is a sin, and needs to be repented of!

The guy you are addressing is "pauline only"
He does not see the entire nt.
He only sees the Pauline books.
He teaches there are 2 gospels. And JESUS'S Gospel is not Paul's gospel.

 

[Absolutely]

I love that picture.
Purple girl.i love your Spirit also here on the forum.

Very nice indeed