Nothing but the truth 👍

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Soyeong

Active member
#21
Oct 11, 2023
853
102
43
#21
posthuman said:
you have this backwards, friend -

Jesus is The Truth
and torah testifies of Him, John 5:39

regarding Psalm 119:142,the true law is to live one another as Christ first loved us - therefore Jesus is that Law.
Psalm 119 testifies of Christ, not Moses.
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The Bible says both that the Torah is truth and that Jesus is the truth, so they are both the same truth. God's word is not any more or less true than God's word made flesh, but rather he is the embodiment of God's word expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Torah. So he embodied what the Torah teaches and what the Torah teaches testifies about him. The same God who gave the Torah to Moses also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it, so there is no disagreement. In order to correctly obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves we need to know how we should love ourselves and the answer to that is that we should love ourselves as Jesus loves us, so that is also how we should love our neighbor, which again means that he is the embodiment of that command.

posthuman said:
regarding Psalm 119:142, the true law is to love one another as Christ first loved us - therefore Jesus is that Law, not just one who obeyed Moses perfectly.

Psalm 119 testifies of Christ, not of Moses.

Moses testifies of Christ - for, prophesying of the Messiah, he says "one like me“ ((Deuteronomy 18:15));
Moses is a testimony of Him Who was to come, Who did come, and Who is to come again. YHWH Himself, become flesh: Who was, Who is, Who shall be.
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Loving our neighbor as Jesus loves us is not doing something other than obeying the command to love our neighbor as ourselves. Furthermore, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Torah as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so the way that he loved his neighbor was through his obedience to the Torah, which is also the way that we are to love our neighbor. If Jesus had been doing something other than living in sinless obedience to the Torah, then the Torah would not have testified about him.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#22
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#22
Thunderrr-mental said:
Can you be sure the rich man and Lazarus has not happened 🤔
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i am sure that it has indeed happened, that it's a true account.

Thunderrr-mental said:
Then also you must be saying that a soul being lifted out of the body and placed in hell is not a rapture.
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when i hear or read the word "rapture" i understand it to be talking specifically about what is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, and that is a specific event at a specific time, how that all of His bride, those who have died and those who have not yet, will rise to meet Him in the air when Jesus returns.

so, i do not use the word "rapture" for what happens when every human or other animal physically dies, and the spirit is separated from the body.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#23
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
5,727
113
#23
posthuman said:
The rich man isn't "raptured" - nor is Lazarus.

mixing terms here a lil: rapture only refers to "those who are alive and remain" when our Husband comes to take us away to the wedding.
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yes and just before us there’s another group that’s caught up

“For ( 1) the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

(2) and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(3) then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

more details

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬


More details on the other side of that

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems consistent Jesus returns at the end of the world , the dead are raised up and those alive and living will be changed into thier spiritual body as will those raised from the dead and then they will all be caught up to meet the lord who’s coming back in the air as the earth is destroyed by fire
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#24
Jul 3, 2015
60,322
29,573
113
#24
Thunderrr-mental said:
why would you not believe a soul leaving its body is not a rapture 😊
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What exactly do you consider to be rapturous about going to hell? .:unsure:

Not to mention the fact that "rapture" regards Christians being bodily gathered into Christ.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#25
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#25
Magenta said:
What exactly do you consider to be rapturous about going to hell? .:unsure:
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same as being raptured into the sea of tranquility.

Plain and simple the soul is raptured out of body and taken to hell or the sea of tranquility or heaven

As there are children of God in heaven to

Happy with this

Yes
No
Maybe
Possibly
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#26
Jul 3, 2015
60,322
29,573
113
#26
Thunderrr-mental said:
Plain and simple the soil is raptured out of body and taken to hell the sea of tranquility or heaven
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Punctuation, please. The way you have written this?

You could be meaning hell is the sea of tranquility.

Where is this sea of tranquility in the Bible?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#28
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#28
Magenta said:
Punctuation, please. The way you have written this?

You could be meaning hell is the sea of tranquility.

Where is this sea of tranquility in the Bible?
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you don't know about sea of tranquility oh ok

The sea gave up it's dead ( sea of tranquility)

And death and hell gave there dead. Sea of hell.

All people in this place have had the soul raptured out of there dead body and are in hell or the sea of tranquility right now.

Then there are some who are in heaven too.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#30
Jul 3, 2015
60,322
29,573
113
#30
My apologies, as I mis-spelled tranquility, so I looked again, checking over 60 versions, and only a few (maybe 6?)
that I had really never heard of before (besides the amplified) had the word tranquility. Quite a few suggested
Ecclesiastes 4:6 instead: Better is a handful of quietness than two hands full of toil and a striving after wind.

Those that did have that word used it in a way that could not be taken to be in reference to hell.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#31
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#31
Magenta said:
My apologies, as I mis-spelled tranquility, so I looked again, checking over 60 versions, and only a few (maybe 6?)
that I had really never heard of before (besides the amplified) had the word tranquility. Quite a few suggested
Ecclesiastes 4:6 instead: Better is a handful of quietness than two hands full of toil and a striving after wind.

Those that did have that word used it in a way that could not be taken to be in reference to hell.
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better to be raptured to the sea of quietness and gentleness a tranquil place of rest. 😊
The vicar at my church would call it the sea of tranquil rest quiet and gentle.

A place I need to imagine quite often.

When I imagine it my a beautiful blue light, lights up in my mind, and before you know it I'm in a place of tranquility away from all the woes.

I long for the day of rest of when I fall asleep, I can't wait to die really 😊
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#32
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#32
Soyeong said:
The Bible says both that the Torah is truth and that Jesus is the truth, so they are both the same truth. God's word is not any more or less true than God's word made flesh, but rather he is the embodiment of God's word expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Torah. So he embodied what the Torah teaches and what the Torah teaches testifies about him. The same God who gave the Torah to Moses also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it, so there is no disagreement. In order to correctly obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves we need to know how we should love ourselves and the answer to that is that we should love ourselves as Jesus loves us, so that is also how we should love our neighbor, which again means that he is the embodiment of that command.


Loving our neighbor as Jesus loves us is not doing something other than obeying the command to love our neighbor as ourselves. Furthermore, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Torah as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so the way that he loved his neighbor was through his obedience to the Torah, which is also the way that we are to love our neighbor. If Jesus had been doing something other than living in sinless obedience to the Torah, then the Torah would not have testified about him.
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Jesus does not love because the Torah commands Him to.
rather,
The Torah commands love because Jesus loves.

God is not righteous because the Law requires Him to be.
rather,
The Law requires righteousness because God is righteous.

He is The Author of Torah.

The Lord of the sabbath is greater than the sabbath, therefore He said, have we not read of how David and his men ate shewbread, which was unlawful for them, yet they were guiltless in doing so?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#37
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#37
p_rehbein said:
THE TRUTH


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I am not saying this to contradict you but we have all seen the truth that the bible has done this is because the results of this truth we study speak otherwise the bible is the literal word of God but we as a body have misuesed it cherry picked it made our own denominations and doctrines confusion division debates but he is the living word the written word in physical form

There is no confusion no division no matter of doctrine or understanding of ourselves in the truth that is the fruits of the devil the logic and understanding of man but I am excited to say this will no longer to be the case soon people will be stunned the word of God the scriptures Jesus himself it is all finally going to come into alignment the wonder and majesty of God the truth behind the truth it will resonate through the spirit to spirit the heart to the heart we who treasure him and his word with absolute reverence will have his word burned into our hearts we will never have to study again never have to rely on interpretation never have wonder what his word says

When we speak a wave of fire will come forth giging life and empowering even the most doubtful of believers the gless that will come forth the might power of the Lord the fire that will copnsume all who it touches

Be prepared to see the word come alive the truth no longer being a mystery it is coming for all who believe to all who hold him and his word with such love adoration and reverence those such people will be his ambassadprs his spokesmen and wherever they walk wherever they speak his glory will engulf all who they encounter this is when even the apostles will pale in comparrision

Expect it dance with joy sing from the depth of your soul of what he is planning
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#38
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#38
oyster67 said:
We usually think of Rapture as going up, not down. "Rapture" is a future event.


It would be interesting to discuss the timeframe of this event. Does it refer to the future Lake of Fire, or something else? Is this the place where a man wishes to return and warn his brother's?
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It was never about the timing the idea of being raptured is about being taken or whisked away to hell or heaven either way we are taken not of our own accord but his everyone tries to figure out the timing of the event or what where it fits but this was never ours to know think of Noah even he never when he heard he spoke and belied simply because he believed God when God said to him the time was now it was random to Noahbeing taken or raptured to hell is not based on timing it based of the heart alone the spirit speaks to the spirit so if he says to us to be ready but we believe based on our understanding or interpretation then there are two groups here those who heard via spirit alone and believed even if there was no evidence to show it and those who heard but rejected it this will be the deciding factor the ones who go to hell are those who heard but went with their own way

This is a dead serious time this is where we throw away what we thought we knew or understand and you will not be recieved well either few will listen but this more than any other time is when we have to throw away the way he have done things because the reward is absolutely great but the cost is just as much he is even now dividing the sheep from the wolves the wheat and tares the spirit gives usa the words to speak and even with Jesus it is rarely taken in the spirit of truth is speaking but only for a short time the end game is here
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#39
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#39
Blain said:
It was never about the timing the idea of being raptured is about being taken or whisked away to hell or heaven either way we are taken not of our own accord but his everyone tries to figure out the timing of the event or what where it fits but this was never ours to know think of Noah even he never when he heard he spoke and belied simply because he believed God when God said to him the time was now it was random to Noahbeing taken or raptured to hell is not based on timing it based of the heart alone the spirit speaks to the spirit so if he says to us to be ready but we believe based on our understanding or interpretation then there are two groups here those who heard via spirit alone and believed even if there was no evidence to show it and those who heard but rejected it this will be the deciding factor the ones who go to hell are those who heard but went with their own way

This is a dead serious time this is where we throw away what we thought we knew or understand and you will not be recieved well either few will listen but this more than any other time is when we have to throw away the way he have done things because the reward is absolutely great but the cost is just as much he is even now dividing the sheep from the wolves the wheat and tares the spirit gives usa the words to speak and even with Jesus it is rarely taken in the spirit of truth is speaking but only for a short time the end game is here
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Is rapture a word that even occurs in the bible 🤔

It just occured to me that it may not even be a biblical word.
 
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