Obedience REQUIRED

[Everlasting-Grace]

There will be a growing number of supporters of that I can imagine, it's mainly the Catholics who truly hate Calvin's beliefs, and a none works based religion tho,

The whole thing is madness and out of control but with so many drama queens around who think they can be better than you, and all that jazz, when ever a bit of drama comes along, they spring up from every where, behaving like gay people with there knickers in a twist.

They need to learn to be quiet and study and listen to to good sound advice from there elders, but I just wish they would all shut up

its also the arminian calvin debate. a few years ago in this very chatroom it got so bad. they banned numerous people from both sides.

its sad that people may spend eternity in hell because they hate a doctrine of man.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

For those who are anti-OSAS and particularly, those who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome, Calvinism does seem to be their boogeyman.

its funny, if you push, it usually comes out.. that is where it comes from.

 

[carbunculus]

For those who are anti-OSAS and particularly, those who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome, Calvinism does seem to be their boogeyman.

Theres a lot of them about , some definitely seem to be suffering an obsession with it, that's t's for sure, tho I've felt when ever I get onto any religious debate with people, it's down to an individual who is in rebellion with God, tho they won't say as much, more often than not it is. And more often than not such people try to gain God's favour, and regardless of whether it's done supporting catholism or even worshiping People like John calvin as there idol,
As sometimes you do get people worshiping a doctrine or denomination more than God, or idolising a former saint to much,

People self glorify in any belief system.

But being anti once saved always saved isn't the answer.

 

[carbunculus]

its also the arminian calvin debate. a few years ago in this very chatroom it got so bad. they banned numerous people from both sides.

its sad that people may spend eternity in hell because they hate a doctrine of man.

I know all about it, it is sad.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I know all about it, it is sad.

yes.. But satan is the master of keeping people decieved

 

[carbunculus]

yes.. But satan is the master of keeping people decieved

I suppose he can be but not to God's saved children tho, all tho he can have people in chains, he can also blackmail people and bribe them to. even when you know he deceiving you he will use other means,

He can really intimidate a person mind, even break a person mind, with powerful delusions, and keep that mind severely abused. tho the Bible makes reference Gods children our exempt from believing a lie or a powerful delusion, they can happen before you get saved

I had my fair share them, really terrifying ones too.

But im one of the lucky ones, a demon did everything to kill me. But failed. There very deceptive

 

[ThomasMatthew]

Obedience required.
Ok. Great.
Now would someone please explain to me their definition of obedience?
Obedience to what exactly?
To the Law?
The numerous commands of Christ?
How much obedience?
Total?
Partial?
Do the obedient get a day off, like a Sabbath Rest?

 

[carbunculus]

Obedience required.
Ok. Great.
Now would someone please explain to me their definition of obedience?
Obedience to what exactly?
To the Law?
The numerous commands of Christ?
How much obedience?
Total?
Partial?
Do the obedient get a day off, like a Sabbath Rest?

Well I suppose people will have there own most important definition of obedience.

I feal obedience should be talked about more in love and intertwined with having a relationship with God.

Like if you love me keep my commands, shouldn't be seen as burden or a threat from God but more as an expression of trust from God, from the loving connection he's making with the believer.

Just accepting God in your heart and believing all the obedience he sets on your heart is an expression of his trust

 

[ScooterJackson]

Yes. Deception works in funny ways. Like with you for example.

It's funny how the Lord led me to not be deceived by teaching me to accept the whole counsel of the Lord rather then only believing bits and pieces of God's Word which leads to false doctrine.

The joke is on those that don't accept all the Lord teaches in His Word which is what carnal minded man made religion leads their adherents to do. That's funny but in a sad kind of way what will become of these people.

 

[pinebeach]

It's funny how the Lord led me to not be deceived by teaching me to accept the whole counsel of the Lord rather then only believing bits and pieces of God's Word which leads to false doctrine.

The joke is on those that don't accept all the Lord teaches in His Word which is what carnal minded man made religion leads their adherents to do. That's funny but in a sad kind of way what will become of these people.

You seem to try to give the impression you alone are led by the Holy Spirit and you alone have grown in your walk with Jesus and you alone are being sanctified.

Yet, these are all common experiences with believers who are led of the Lord.

You are not exclusive. You continue to judge and by now, most people probably have you on ignore because they are not here to be
'judged' by someone who thinks they have obtained a better position than anyone else. Humble yourself as scripture directs. You are not a teacher and we can all learn from others.

And no, 'it's' not funny. God, by His Spirit, keeps all who are His. smh You have an attitude towards others that is a major turn off and it has nothing to do with anything but you. Nothing funny there either.

 

[ScooterJackson]

You seem to try to give the impression you alone are led by the Holy Spirit and you alone have grown in your walk with Jesus and you alone are being sanctified.

Yet, these are all common experiences with believers who are led of the Lord.

You are not exclusive. You continue to judge and by now, most people probably have you on ignore because they are not here to be
'judged' by someone who thinks they have obtained a better position than anyone else. Humble yourself as scripture directs. You are not a teacher and we can all learn from others.

I never claimed I was the only one that learned from God's Word that once saved always saved is false doctrine and a scam of the devil. There are others around that love the Lord so much they are willing to accept all the Lord teaches in His Word.

Pointing out portions of scripture others choose to ignore is not judging them. It's trying to help them understand they have been indoctrinated in to only believing certain passages and ignoring or rejecting other passages.

The people crying about "being judged" know there's something wrong with their precious reformed theology and so they feel the need to lash out at anybody who dares to not flow with this carnal minded made made religion. If they really believed their own religion that would just move on and stop arguing about it.

By arguing about it they are showing they know there's something bad wrong with reformed theology.

 

[rogerg]

Obedience required.
Ok. Great.
Now would someone please explain to me their definition of obedience?
Obedience to what exactly?
To the Law?
The numerous commands of Christ?
How much obedience?
Total?
Partial?
Do the obedient get a day off, like a Sabbath Rest?

ThomasMatthew,
Jesus Christ, the Savior, was perfectly obedient to the Father in every respect on the behalf of those (who are) the Father’s spiritual children from eternity past. By the Father’s exceeding mercy, grace, and love, that perfect obedience was freely imputed to them so that they would not be required to do so of themselves and which they could never achieve. True spiritual standing does not result from human efforts to try to meet a perfect, unattainable, standard; it rests entirely on the complete work of the Savior, who by Himself, already satisfied everything required for the redemption of His children.

 

[ScooterJackson]

that perfect obedience was freely imputed to them so that they would not be required to do so of themselves

This right here is exactly why so many believe they can live in sin and still be saved.
Righteousness is only applicable to those who abide in Christ which is walking after the Spirit not the flesh.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

No condemnation is only applicable to those walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What Jesus did in His death, burial, and resurrection does not do away with seedtime and harvest (sowing and reaping) as some seem to be claiming. Gal 6:7,8 tells us plainly that is a person sows to the flesh they shall of the flesh reap corruption. To say this is not true is mocking God according to His Word.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

 

[rogerg]

This right here is exactly why so many believe they can live in sin and still be saved.
Righteousness is only applicable to those who abide in Christ which is walking after the Spirit not the flesh.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

No condemnation is only applicable to those walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What Jesus did in His death, burial, and resurrection does not do away with seedtime and harvest (sowing and reaping) as some seem to be claiming. Gal 6:7,8 tells us plainly that is a person sows to the flesh they shall of the flesh reap corruption. To say this is not true is mocking God according to His Word.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Scooterjackson,
yes, that is completely correct: people still sin and are saved because if not, no one could be saved. They are saved because Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, not because of what they may do, or what they may not do as I stated in my post to @ThomasMatthew. Spiritual standing does not depend on a man trying to hit a compliance standard outside of their reach; it rests entirely on the mercy and grace of the Father and a complete Savior who perfectly finished the transaction by Himself. That is why in Scripture, that Jesus has the title of THE Savior, and man does not.

 

[ScooterJackson]

people still sin and are saved because if not, no one could be saved.

Only is they forsake and confess their sin can they be cleansed of unrighteousness.
Repentance is not taught these days and that's be design of the devil to trick preachers in to not teaching this.

The devil knows that if we sow to the flesh we reap corruption (Gal 6) and he knows the escape is to sow to the Spirit so we can reap eternal life once more and be back in right standing with the Lord. The devil has tricked many in to mocking God by saving there's no need to forsake and confess our sins to be cleaned and to obtain mercy so we can be back in right standing with the Lord if we were to sin.

If a person does not forsake and confess their sins, then they are still on the hook for their sins (see: Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9)
To say this is not true is to claim we do not reap what we sow which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8
This is how we know the lack of teaching on repentance is the work of the devil

They are saved because Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, not because of what they may do, or what they may not do

So in your view mankind reaping what he sows is now a thing of the past?
That would be mocking God according to what the Lord says in Gal 6:7,8

This sort of teaching leads people to believe they can live in sin and still be saved which is a doctrine of demons.
This is one of the numerous error that came from the so called reformation as it's not biblical.

 

[Freed18]

Again I'm giving you another chance to know something important, the acceptance starts with the father first, I've diligently searched the scriptures over this, and scripture is clear on this. scripture is also clear the father seeks first.

OK, then you had better adhere to your belief.

All you're doing is supporting Catholic doctrine in one way or another.

LOL

And believe me when I say the catholics have found a thousand different reasons as to how you can be ex communicated from their faith and God over the centuries, one being you must perform works in order to have your grace increased.

That reasoning seems backwards.
Don't the Catholics want their people to do works to increase grace ?
Why would they excommunicate over that ?

With millions of cathlics and Catholicism being more supported than any other denomination, the dispute they cause to people outside of there faith is pretty much wide spread, and so far in this thread I have seen many of their arguments,

OK

The best part is none of you are saying you're Catholic, whilst quoting all there arguments.

Even the Catholics have some residual truth in their past.

It's ridiculous, also with baptism and confession of the holy spirit they believe that each person only gets a measure of grace, reason being a person can have sone element of unbelief in their heart or not be completely sincere with confession.

I don't know.
You seem to want to discuss Catholicsm, but I am not Catholic.

In their works of performance and merit some Catholics will curse anyone who believes other wise.

I've never heard of that, but who knows ?

 

[Freed18]

you replace works of the law with your own works.

How so ?
Isn't obedience to the One who died for my sins the natural reaction to conversion ?

your incuring debt not grace.

I'm not interseted in incurring anything, in this context.
Christ died for my past sins, and I obey the One I call my Lord and Master.
Don't you ?
Or isn't He really your Lord or Master ?

turn to God. become poor in spirit. be like the tax collector. reject the phariseeic doctrine you hold on to.

I have no idea of what you are referring to.

 

[amazingrace]

What the point in replying to me without any explanation as to why your replying to me, and what's with randomly picking out loads of scriptures without any further explanation,

Are you ok ? Really

And What's with quoting so many people all at once to, with answers that suggest you know better than everyone your post to, it just makes you look like your the controling type trying to rule over everyone.

If your going to carry on being rude don't bother replying to me any more.


And for someone who believes on grace so much why are you promoting works so much ?? Are you ok ? Are you on meds or something

Why did Paul promote works?


2 Corinthians 12:9

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? Nothing!

Phil 4:13 in Christ? All things!

Power of Grace:

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:


Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Romans 14:18

For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Without works service is impossible!

Thks

 

[Freed18]

Scooter, let me give you a proper bike,

A Kawasaki now I may even give you a piggy back

Now listen scooter as you have an issue here with listening and being easily deflected, the discussion is not whether the father and son are one but whether your both interested in knowing something important, which will or may help you in your Dodgy scooter trails, I do hope @Freed18 is listening.

Now better still the truth can set you free.

Acceptance starts with the father first

Happy scooting

Free from what ?

 

[amazingrace]

Freed18,
your explicit claim that your salvation is up to you is a complete denial of Scripture and confirms exactly what I have been saying about you - that you completely reject Jesus Christ as THE Savior, which up to now, you have denied. By claiming that God only made salvation available and that the final outcome depends on your own willpower and actions on judgment day, you are openly admitting that you are relying on yourself as savior, not on Jesus Christ. However, Matthew 1:21 states flatly that He shall save His people from their sins - it is unconditional and not left open that man can achieve it. As I have said to you repeatedly, you demonstrate that do not believe Jesus Christ is THE Savior, even though Scripture beyond question, says that He is. Anway, I am glad to see that you've finally decided to come clean and place your cards on the table thereby ending the need for any further debate.

JESUS is the source of grace!
Jn 1:16
In and of ourselves we can do nothing

JN 15:5 APART from Christ? Nothing!

Phil 4:13 in Christ? All things!

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

The initial grace of justification provides union with God!

Thks