Obedience REQUIRED

[ScooterJackson]

believers reap consequences for sin"

You should see what God calls CORRUPTION through out His Word.
Nobody that is corrupt is in right standing with the Lord.

The question is whether 1 John 1:9 is describing the restoration of fellowship with God or teaching that Christ's atonement stops applying until each individual sin is specifically named.

It should be a very rare occurrence for a Christian to sin and if they did they would feel the Holy Spirit telling them they have done wrong and should repent

The idea that there are so many sins a person cannot remember them all is very troubling and indicates a person like that is reprobate and has been living in sin for a long time.

If a person such as this really was sorry for their sin and wanted to be back in right standing with the Lord no they are not required to itemize each and every sin they have committed. They would simply tell the Lord they have no been living right having turned away from Him and ask Him to gorgive them of all their sin asking Him to cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

If they do that in faith believing while forsaking their sin, then they are cleansed anew by the Blood of the Lamb and back in right standing with the Lord. The trick is to learn to stop turning away from the Lord forsaking Him to go to sin.

what happens to sins we forget, don't yet understand, or die before confessing?

Just answered that above. It's a fake argument and one given by those don't accept the whole counsel of the Lord.

Does our salvation depend on Christ's finished work or on our ability to maintain a perfectly updated list of every failure?

Feel free to believe 1 John 1:9 is a lie if you must.
The Lord specifically said IF you confess your sins He'll forgive you and cleanse you.
If you don't then He won't. Some folks are not wanting to accept what 1 John 1:9 says and to deny Gal 6

I'm arguing that Galatians 6 and 1 John 1:9 do not, by themselves, prove that every unconfessed sin places a believer back under condemnation.

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation. Because of His mercy the Lord will provide opportunity for people to repent but during the time before they repent they are not in right standing with Him. Some fail to repent before dying and end up separated from the Lord for all eternity.

That conclusion still has to be demonstrated from Scripture.

It already has been as the wagons have been circled several times.
Feel free to pick and choose which passages you believe are true and which ones are not.

 

[ScooterJackson]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Christians should ignore sin, avoid confession, or continue living after the flesh.
Scripture clearly calls us to repent, confess sin, and walk in the light.

Then why argue against 1 John 1:9 and Gal 6 and other warnings of the Lord?
There's only one reason why anyone would argue in favor of being able to sin ans still be saved.

 

[OMC]

You should see what God calls CORRUPTION through out His Word.
Nobody that is corrupt is in right standing with the Lord.



It should be a very rare occurrence for a Christian to sin and if they did they would feel the Holy Spirit telling them they have done wrong and should repent

The idea that there are so many sins a person cannot remember them all is very troubling and indicates a person like that is reprobate and has been living in sin for a long time.

If a person such as this really was sorry for their sin and wanted to be back in right standing with the Lord no they are not required to itemize each and every sin they have committed. They would simply tell the Lord they have no been living right having turned away from Him and ask Him to gorgive them of all their sin asking Him to cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

If they do that in faith believing while forsaking their sin, then they are cleansed anew by the Blood of the Lamb and back in right standing with the Lord. The trick is to learn to stop turning away from the Lord forsaking Him to go to sin.



Just answered that above. It's a fake argument and one given by those don't accept the whole counsel of the Lord.



Feel free to believe 1 John 1:9 is a lie if you must.
The Lord specifically said IF you confess your sins He'll forgive you and cleanse you.
If you don't then He won't. Some folks are not wanting to accept what 1 John 1:9 says and to deny Gal 6



Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation. Because of His mercy the Lord will provide opportunity for people to repent but during the time before they repent they are not in right standing with Him. Some fail to repent before dying and end up separated from the Lord for all eternity.



It already has been as the wagons have been circled several times.
Feel free to pick and choose which passages you believe are true and which ones are not.

I think you're still arguing against a position I haven't taken.

I have never said 1 John 1:9 is a lie, nor have I argued that Christians can live in sin and remain in right standing with God.
We both agree that believers should repent, confess sin, and walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh.

Where we disagree is that you seem to equate every act of sin with immediately being outside of Christ until confession occurs.
Yet John writes to believers: "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1).
He does not say, "If any man sin, he is no longer in Christ until he confesses."

Romans 8:1 describes those whose lives are characterized by walking after the Spirit, not those who never stumble.
Otherwise, John's statements in 1 John 1:8 and 2:1 make little sense.

I agree that corruption is serious.
I agree that persistent rebellion hardens the heart.
I agree that a person who abandons Christ should be deeply concerned.
What I do not see demonstrated is that every failure instantly places a believer back under condemnation until he specifically repents of that act.

The warnings are real, but so are Christ's promises.
Scripture calls believers to repent when they sin, while also assuring them that: "we have an advocate with the Father" (1 John 2:1).
We need to let both truths stand.

 

[OMC]

Then why argue against 1 John 1:9 and Gal 6 and other warnings of the Lord?
There's only one reason why anyone would argue in favor of being able to sin ans still be saved.

I'm not arguing against 1 John 1:9 or Galatians 6; I'm simply asking where Scripture explicitly says that every individual sin immediately places a believer back under condemnation until it is specifically confessed, because 1 John 2:1 says, "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous," which points struggling believers to Christ as their Advocate, not to the conclusion that they are instantly outside of Him.

 

[Gideon300]

I don't think 1 John 1:9 proves what you're claiming.
Yes, believers should confess their sins.
No argument there.
But if forgiveness is suspended until every individual sin is specifically confessed, what happens to sins we forget, misunderstand, or don't immediately recognize?
Are we moving in and out of salvation throughout the day?

The issue isn't whether confession matters.
The issue is whether Christ's sacrifice was truly sufficient.
Scripture says Christ offered Himself "once for all" (Heb. 10:10) and that God has "forgiven you all trespasses" (Col. 2:13).
Galatians 6:7 teaches that we reap what we sow.
It does not say every unconfessed sin cancels our salvation until we remember to mention it.

So yes, confess your sins.
Yes, forsake your sins.
Yes, God disciplines His children.
But the claim that a believer remains unforgiven until every individual sin is specifically confessed still has to be demonstrated from Scripture rather than assumed from 1 John 1:9.

Nobody is arguing that believers can sow to the flesh and not reap corruption.
Galatians 6:7-8 plainly says exactly the opposite.
The part I'm questioning is the leap from "believers reap consequences for sin" to "every unconfessed sin immediately removes a believer from salvation."

And honestly, I don't know any serious Christian who would say, "Don't confess your sins."
Of course we should confess them.
Of course we should forsake them.
The question is whether 1 John 1:9 is describing the restoration of fellowship with God or teaching that Christ's atonement stops applying until each individual sin is specifically named.

If your view is correct, what happens to sins we forget, don't yet understand, or die before confessing?
Does our salvation depend on Christ's finished work or on our ability to maintain a perfectly updated list of every failure?

So no, I'm not arguing against confession.
I'm arguing that Galatians 6 and 1 John 1:9 do not, by themselves, prove that every unconfessed sin places a believer back under condemnation.
That conclusion still has to be demonstrated from Scripture.

You are wasting your time with Scooter. He has distorted views and no one has been able to correct him.

 

[OMC]

You are wasting your time with Scooter. He has distorted views and no one has been able to correct him.

I'll plant what I can then move on. God causes the growth so yeah. almost done here.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm not arguing against 1 John 1:9 or Galatians 6; I'm simply asking where Scripture explicitly says that every individual sin immediately places a believer back under condemnation until it is specifically confessed, because 1 John 2:1 says, "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous," which points struggling believers to Christ as their Advocate, not to the conclusion that they are instantly outside of Him.

This is what happens when certain folks fail to read 1 John 1:9 in contrast with 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10. We need to read scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine. Otherwise we end up with contradictions. Isolating a pet verse out of context then applying one's own private interpretation to it results error as we have witnessed.

 

[Freed18]

Dodgy scooters

But from your last reply to me free from you too

I had hoped you were referencing John 8:32-34, where Jesus said the truth can make you free from committing sin.

 

[Freed18]

You could never be obedient enough to merit salvation (Romans 4:4-6) yet if you were put on trial for being a Christian would there be any evidence to convict you?

Personally, yes.

(James 2:14-26) Faith is the root of salvation and obedience/works which follows is the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

Or conversion to Christianity.

Which of the ten commandments of the OT does the two commandments of Jesus Christ exclude?

None.

Salvation based on sinless perfection is earning. obedience/good works are the fruit of

You just said that obedience and good works were the fruit of salvation...so how do you figure one is using it to earn salvation ?
If anything, they simply manifest salvation.

Only at that time?

Yes.
It wasnt true while Enoch walked with God, or during Elijah's life.
Or while Jesus walked th earth.

So, ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) EXCEPT for Enoch, Elijah, Elishah, Samuel, and John the Baptist, and perhaps others

I imagine there were others with faith in the living God, who obeyed His demands.

Scripture does not say that. The ONLY exception is Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22)

One exception breaks the entire rule !
Not all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, the demons do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have, and only genuine believers do have.

They believed.
Their belief will not garner them anythign but eternity in the lake of fire.
Many professing Christians will suffer the same fate, unless they have a real turn from sin.

In Matthew 7:21, we read - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Yep, showing that belief alone, is worthless.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

That is enough proof for me to write that sinners don't actually believe in Him.
Where is their fear of the Lord ?
They may even espouse belief, but having sin on them disqualifies them from being "in Him".

In Matthew 7:22-23, we read - On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!' Jesus never knew these many people, which means they were never saved.

Right, sinners are not known by God.
It reminds me of 1 John 2:3-4..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Sinners don't know God.

In context, Jesus is warning against false prophets. Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. Hence, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:17 - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, BUT a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. *This puts verse 23 into perspective.

It puts this thread in perspective too.
Why anyone would argue against obedeience to God, is beyond me.

 

[Freed18]

I won't be accepting or following their eternal security doctrines much less get used to it.

Good.

Actually I knew right when I got born again that one cannot continue in sin and still be saved.
Instinctively from the start I knew this was wrong. Later the Lord showed me from scripture that eternal security doctrine is not biblical.

That didn't answer my question.

 

[Freed18]

Freed18,
you have said nothing new. As I told you yesterday, you have placed your cards face-up on the table and thereby ended all debate. Your latest statement that you accepted salvation and fulfilled its requirements is simply another open admission that you rely on yourself as your own savior. You do not believe that Jesus Christ is THE Savior.

God and His Son gave us all we need to remain sanctified during this life.
I glorify Him by keeping holy.
Those who want to trample the holy blood of Jesus, shed for us, will not survive the day of judgement.

 

[Freed18]

Scooterjackson,
your claim that righteousness and spiritual standing are dependent upon man's performance, is a denial of what Scripture actually teaches. Romans 8:1 clearly states that there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Eternal spiritual security depends entirely on being placed in Christ Jesus which God alone does for His children through His mercy and grace and not by man's works. Walking after the Spirit is the outward manifestation and evidence of a saved/quickened child.

You should have added the caveat..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
That is the part you seem to be unaware of, while you try to optionalize obedience to God.